Ukraine counter offensive

[Vinty]

They appear to have a Boris like problem - who to replace him with. The britannica has a decent run down on the break up

When empires or political unions breakup there is always violence.
That is because the imperial powers redraw original borders of the subject states in order to further the wider imperial interests.
There is nothing unusual about the conflict in Ukraine, it is a former member of a forced political union, different ethnicities and religions were made to live within borders created for the overall security of the Soviet union.
When the glue of oppression that held the Soviet union together dissolved, then the original ethnic and religious identities started to reassert themselves in the form of ethnic nationalism.
That is when the violence comes in, modern Ukraine is a state created by a former authoritarian power, that authoritarian power has now gone, so, it is only natural that the different peoples who lived within the borders of what was essentially an artificial state, now want to exercise their own right to self determination.
One solution would be to hold internationally supervised referendums in the disputed terroritories to find out what these people actually want.

 

[old duffer]

True as when war like activities are going on sides are generally not lilly white. The ICJ just gets ignored or interfered with. Both the UK and USA have been at that fairly recently.

Many posts in this thread assume all is exactly as it seems. Yes Russia did invade but intentions especially in the west I wonder. One intention was clearly stated by the USA's defence secretary early on. Ukraine of course will be hunky dory for it's people when that is all over. Join the EU, NATO and anything else they fancy.

Meanwhile weapons continue to dribble i

Yes, Damned Ruskies.

"The election was not held everywhere in Ukraine. During the 2014 Crimean crisis, Ukraine lost control over Crimea, which was unilaterally annexed by Russia in March 2014. As a result, elections were not held in Crimea. Of the 2,430 planned ballot stations (in Donbas), only 426 remained open for polling. The self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic, controlling large parts of Donbas, had vowed to do everything possible to disrupt the elections on their territory."

2014 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I take your point. I was not invited to vote in the Lanchasire by-election last week nor was I able to vote for Scottish independence either. I did try and ask if I could vote in Belgium but they came up with the excus that I had to actually live there....its a scam alrighty

 

[old duffer]

then being anti Russian (doe that make you a wasist BTW?) you won't like this poster!
If you do believe in freedom from being murdered by your own Gov (no referring to is real hell please, they are Gods chosen ones so they can do whatever they want) then print this poster and place it in your window
When the Russians arrive in the UK they will be looking for enemies so this poster will make them goose step past your home...

 

[Charlie George]

When empires or political unions breakup there is always violence.
That is because the imperial powers redraw original borders of the subject states in order to further the wider imperial interests.
There is nothing unusual about the conflict in Ukraine, it is a former member of a forced political union, different ethnicities and religions were made to live within borders created for the overall security of the Soviet union.
When the glue of oppression that held the Soviet union together dissolved, then the original ethnic and religious identities started to reassert themselves in the form of ethnic nationalism.
That is when the violence comes in, modern Ukraine is a state created by a former authoritarian power, that authoritarian power has now gone, so, it is only natural that the different peoples who lived within the borders of what was essentially an artificial state, now want to exercise their own right to self determination.
One solution would be to hold internationally supervised referendums in the disputed terroritories to find out what these people actually want.

There was a referendum in Ukraine, they voted overwhelmingly for independence, so are you calling for individual areas of a country who vote differently in a referendum to be allowed to choose their own destiny?

 

[JohnD]

anti Russian

Disapproving of a political leader who sends an army to invade a neighbouring country is not "anti-Russian."

 

[Vinty]

There was a referendum in Ukraine, they voted overwhelmingly for independence, so are you calling for individual areas of a country who vote differently in a referendum to be allowed to choose their own destiny?

Yes.

 

[gant]

Yes, Damned Ruskies.

"The election was not held everywhere in Ukraine. During the 2014 Crimean crisis, Ukraine lost control over Crimea, which was unilaterally annexed by Russia in March 2014. As a result, elections were not held in Crimea. Of the 2,430 planned ballot stations (in Donbas), only 426 remained open for polling. The self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic, controlling large parts of Donbas, had vowed to do everything possible to disrupt the elections on their territory."

2014 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What an opportunity to get a sock puppet in then.

 

[Justin Passing]

George Robertson and Liam Fox - both are ex defence ministers - on R4 this morning pointing out that Russia has been increasing military production (budget up 50% on previous year) while the West is running out of bits and pieces to hand over. Ukr's production has been fairly well knobbled, of course.

Some tanks coming from Europe, hurrah, could be as many as 88. Putin is said to have 1800 (or some say 2000) ready for a new assault, now.
----

Look up "Ukraine losses".
No, really, have a go.. Men, tanks?
Does anyone have a clue, because as far as I can see, nobody's saying. Obviously you don't take either side's word for their own losses.
Ukraine started off an army a quarter the size of Russia's (and far fewer bits o kit), but of course that became all their men 18-60, not being allowed to leave the country as they were effectively conscripted, whether they're fit for the job or not. (Less the normal reserved occupations, single fathers .... etc - there's a list )

---

An oddity, seems to me, is that Ukraine's railways are still working at very near normal capacity. You have to wonder why. While Russia indisputably has weapons to obliterate large areas, but they haven't replaced rail hubs with craters. Ukraine's military is still using them for shifting armaments.
Possibly the R's are looking forward to using the rail for their own forces, but that seems far off.
It was back in April that one missile on Kramatorsk, in the east, caused a bit of uproar - as in "how dare they". The Russians even said it wasn't one of their missiles.
Not really trying??

Early on, many of us thought it was only a matter of time until Putin rolled over them, so Ukraine should settle, asap to reduce loss of life.
We'll see what happens in the next few weeks.

For an informed, but contrary view on it all, some at least of which rings true:

Run it at 2x speed and turn captions on!

 

[JohnD]

"Who wants this war?"

"...the Global Financial Community..."

That's a neofascist code term.

 

[transam]

What's the waiting list for surgery in the UK?
How many people die unnecessarily of cancer due to lack of treatment
or is the success of a nation dictated by how long it take to get a new car from a dealer?
ps how long is it in the UK?

A damn sight less than in poo tins
Russia

Poo tin is of course one of the world richest blokes

Him and his cronies have stolen embezzled hundreds of billions from the Russian economy

Blimey some one should tell his daughters how good it is in russia and they can move back there

 

[transam]

Russian who changed the world

Dmitry Mendeleev was only 35 years old when he made his discovery

The element oganesson is named after Yuri Oganesyan who assisted in the discovery of several superheavy elements, now added to the table.

Doctor Nikolay Pirogov is the founder of field surgery and the first to use ether in the Crimea and the first to use orthopaedic casts from plaster

Then of course there is Ivan Pavlov

Knorozov was a linguist and ethnographer who managed to decipher the script of the Maya civilization….when he was just 30 yrs old

Nikolay Basov and Alexander Prokhorov invented the laser and their research was used by Townes to build the first maser. (Basov, Prokhorov and Towes shared the Nobel prize)

Yuri Denisyuk created holography

And of course there is the father of space, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky

Andrey Sakharov and Igor Tamm Nobel Prize for the development of the tokamak concept used in thermonuclear fusion. Sakharov’s team developed and tested the first hydrogen bomb.

So how come if it’s so good you don’t move out there ???

 

[denso13]

I was not invited to vote in the Lanchasire by-election last week nor was I able to vote for Scottish independence either.

I hope you invited a tyrant to invade them then. Can't have people making their own minds up can we...

 

[denso13]

What an opportunity to get a sock puppet in then.

What an opportunity to get in someone the people actually voted for. He got a majority in the first round of elections so streets ahead of the others.

But then again some people have a gut feeling something isn't quite right. Ballot vs gut feeling...

 

[ajohn]

There was a referendum in Ukraine, they voted overwhelmingly for independence, so are you calling for individual areas of a country who vote differently in a referendum to be allowed to choose their own destiny?

The general thoughts in Ukraine's case is 25% or maybe a bit more want to be Russian. Eastern aspect. It's what started the initial problem. Crimea a lot higher as lots are ethnic Russians,

I had heard that this had happened but no info in western press. Turkish news paper

Ukrainian president pushes forward on law for steeper criminal penalties for soldiers

Volodymyr Zelenskyy rejects petition asking him to veto law on boosting criminal liability for members of military - Anadolu Agency

www.aa.com.tr

Also this one different subject. Advice or explaining a Ukrainian withdrawal from one area that is expected by some

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/24/politics/ukraine-shift-tactics-bakhmut/index.html

 

[denso13]

The general thoughts in Ukraine's case is 25% or maybe a bit more want to be Russian.

So that would be 75% no - 25% yes. Why on earth is Vlad the Invader trying to overcome the will of the people?