Vive La France!

[noseall]

Under 10 weeks - She can get the pills by post, but I suspect she can walk in to a clinic and get them too. She needs a consultation, they are dangerous drugs.

Why are you struggling to understand the text?

Still requires two doctors approval.

 

[JonathanM]

The political virtue signalling from Macron, doesn't appear to be making abortion easier to access in France

Is it virtue signalling? I thought it was to stop right wingers making an emergency change to the law if they win power.

He may not know, but in France you must consult with your doctor before being considered. She must be in a "state of distress" because of her pregnancy. She then has to wait 1 week before she can apply. This application must be in writing and only then, if approved by the doctor will she be referred to a clinic.

I don't want to re-open the whole debate about the meaning of "approved" But I have just had a quick look at the abortion rules in France and everything is saying that there is a right to an abortion "on request" up to 14 weeks. Also, the woman no longer has to state she is in "distress". It is true that she has to have two medical consultations, but the medical professional can't actually do anything to stop her going ahead. It is just to obtain information and discuss options. So the woman does not have to be "considered" for an abortion and there is nothing to be "approved". It is just a process. As far as I can tell.

Info below from the French government.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1551?lang=en

2 medical consultations are mandatory before performing an abortion.

1st consultation

For 1re consultation, you can talk to a doctor, a midwife of your choice or a family planning or education center (sexual health center).

In the course of this consultation:

You're asking for an abortion

You receive oral information and a guide on abortion

The doctor or midwife offers you a psycho-social interview (this is mandatory if you are a minor).

This consultation shall give rise to the issue of a medical consultation certificate.

2nd consultation

During the 2e consultation:

You get the 2e medical examination certificate

You confirm your abortion request in writing to your doctor or midwife.

 

[noseall]

Is it virtue signalling? I thought it was to stop right wingers making an emergency change to the law

Correct.
I don't think MBK reads to well. I've had to explain my opening post to him several times.

 

[motorbiking]

How does it achieve this. ?

 

[motorbiking]

And over 10 weeks ?

You do know you are picking and choosing snippets and not full facts

I've provided you with a link to the law, I've pointed you at the relevant sections. It's been posted dozens of times. After 10 weeks it needs to be performed by a suitably qualified team. Even if you take drugs to cause the termination, there can still be a need to remove the unwanted parts.

 

[motorbiking]

Indeed.

Abortion rights in France are still too limited after senate vote on constitution | Letter

Letters: Dani Anderson points out that a 14-week limit means that many people are still unable to get an abortion in France

www.theguardian.com

Last week’s vote to enshrine abortion rights in the constitution is a very welcome step from French senators (France to make abortion a constitutional right after senate vote, 28 February). Efforts to legally protect abortion access are extremely valuable when abortion rights are under threat in many parts of Europe – and we’ve seen in Poland how quickly abortion access can be overturned by undemocratic “tribunal” rulings.

While your article rightly points out that the French parliament voted to extend France’s legal limit for ending a pregnancy from 12 to 14 weeks in 2022, we would like add that in practice this 14-week limit means that many people are still unable to get an abortion in France. Abortion Support Network works to remove some of the barriers to getting an abortion by paying the costs of travelling for care in a clinic overseas, and while most of the people we help are in Poland and the Republic of Ireland, our third largest country demographic is people in France.
Dani Anderson
Abortion Support Network (England)

How can this be? Noseall reckons their setup is way better than ours? of course he's renowned for being an expert in constitutional, international and criminal law.

- so access to services is difficult
- 10 weeks less time to get one, 1 week less for drug induced.
- need for two consultations and cooling off period

 

[motorbiking]

Still requires two doctors approval.

what do you think the statute of limitation might be for the CPS to prosecute a woman who didn't get this approval you talk about?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I've provided you with a link to the law, I've pointed you at the relevant sections. It's been posted dozens of times. After 10 weeks it needs to be performed by a suitably qualified team. Even if you take drugs to cause the termination, there can still be a need to remove the unwanted parts.

Still swerving

 

[motorbiking]

No point in me answering your questions if you are going to read the law, ignore it and tell me I am wrong.

 

[JonathanM]

How does it achieve this. ?

It needs a super majority to overturn it and any emergency law would be automatically illegal.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...too-limited-after-senate-vote-on-constitution

Efforts to legally protect abortion access are extremely valuable when abortion rights are under threat in many parts of Europe – and we’ve seen in Poland how quickly abortion access can be overturned by undemocratic “tribunal” rulings.

 

[JonathanM]

so access to services is difficult

It is extremely easy to access within the first 14 weeks. And it is an automatic right. No need for the doctors' opinions.

 

[motorbiking]

Plenty of reports say it isn't - what is the basis of your assertion?

It needs a super majority to overturn it and any emergency law would be automatically illegal.

I wouldn't consider 3/5ths a super majority.

 

[JonathanM]

Plenty of reports say it isn't - what is the basis of your assertion?

Within the first 14 weeks it is an automatic right. There is a simple procedure to go through where you have a chat with a medical professional and they give you some information about the procedure. You then go back a week later and sign to say you still want to go ahead. What makes you think it is difficult?

I wouldn't consider 3/5ths a super majority.

Would you argue black is white?

The Constitution of France can be amended in two ways: on a referendum, or. by three-fifths super-majority of both houses of the Parliament.

 

[Notch7]

It needs a super majority to overturn it and any emergency law would be automatically illegal.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...too-limited-after-senate-vote-on-constitution

Yes it protects against right wing populist governments trying to make themselves above the law.

Like the Conservative govt has tried to do

 

[motorbiking]

The Conservative government just made it easier to get access to abortions. You can request one over the phone and get the pills in the post in the first 10 weeks. You don't even have to consult with a doctor.

Covid temporary laws were made permanent