Weapons shortage

[transam]

A generation brought up with 24 hour access to every thing

Take away there mobile phones and there world would collapse

Comparing this generation to those in world war 2 is a nonsense imo

See how a cash less society would fair when the infrastructure is knocked out

 

[Pat ex]

I think your memory is at fault
As you seem completely ignorant
As to what occurred

Taking a very simplistic view of winning, say in football, the objective is to score the most goals, i.e. their objective has been achieved.

Taking the Vietnam -USA war, the US's objective was to prevent the spread of Communism throughout Indo- China.
Vietnam went totally communist in 1976, Cambodia and Laos soon followed.
Therefore the US's objective was not met. If there was an objective of 'communism spreading' it was achieved. But I don't think there was any such 'communist objective'.
Whereas the objective of North Vietnam was the unification of Vietnam, which was achieved.

 

[Justin Passing]

The US military absolutely dwarfs Russia

Really? Russia has more nuclear warheads than the US. Now compare the number of anything, in range.

The war isn't between Russia and the US, it's on Russia's doorstep with a neighbour.
What counts, is what's in range and available for use.

Russia we've seen also has an enormous capacity to screw up, which is a bigger factor than what's thousands of miles away.

Perhaps the new top army guy will sort out the incoming western arms. Then what?

 

[ajohn]

The point is that Europe/the west is far more reliant on these fragile assets

He misses the point that the USA is too. In fact many countries are. He has a very USA centric view. Some people here have too. They rule the world etc. Satellites may well be the most critical aspect for the military. Not sure about the stock market etc. Indications are the initial web was military.

You have been highlighting an "odd" aspect of MAD which both NATO and Russia are taking advantage of. MAD limits what both sides can do. Ukraine in the middle. Russia's bottom line on MAD is their state ceasing to exist or maybe looking like it will. Others are a little different

NATO is talking about members boosting weapon manufacturing rates as certain stocks are low. More money and ailing economies - Putin's economic war. Seems India is prepared to help - will only pay Russia with Euro and USD. Not much use to Russia but what will this do to their economy. IMF have made some interesting noises about the power crisis that in some ways make a lot of sense. Only help those that really need it. Odd for them to talk redistribution of wealth. Don't help those that can cope even if it leaves them with less to spend. They just need enough to survive at a reasonable level.

Ukraine admits 30% of it's grid is bust and months to repair.

Russia has found some bridge culprits. Internal faction including some Ukrainians. Sounded like less of those than others.

 

[IT Minion]

Russia doesn't want a war with the US. They would not win and they know that. Putin wants to push as hard as he can to take Ukraine without provoking NATO to intervene directly.

 

[Justin Passing]

The point is that Europe/the west is far more reliant on these fragile assets

He misses the point that the USA is too.

"The west", encompasses the US! US internal sentiment is about tertiary in importance, on the ground, or to us here now. Take the Russo centric view. Antigonise Putin and look what he can do, to us.

Biden has said that he believes Putin won't go nuclear, which was consistent with looking for a way to spend less and make his good ol boys worry less. Little things called Mid-terms will hurt him.

If Putin stopped arms going in it wouldn't be MAD, it would only be UkAD. Germany said a couple of days ago they were sending a defence system. Now apparently it's there. How spectacularly incompetent of Putin to let that happen. Putin has to stop the best of the west nibbling away at him.

I wonder if he's asked Lukashenko to put watches on those routes into Ukr. They're only 200-300km from Belarus. A few truck convoys destroyed would be siognificant.

If he can't, I'd imagine him more inclined to do overwhelmingly bad things, or he'll face more acid burning his flank for some indefinite period..

An indicator that poots may be short of the right sort of missile, is that he's producing too many explosions in Ukraine which aren't making more than untidy but valueless craters - he presumably wanted each to do more than that.

IF poots hit more highly expensive western arms as soon as they landed in Ukraine, like he did early on with an ultrasonic missile near Lviv, he'd put the west off sending more.


Seems Putin has many cards, but butterfingers using them.

 

[ajohn]

"The west", encompasses the US! US i

The quote you posted specifically mentioned Europe. The USA would be cut off too. It did mention Ukraine specifically which is interesting but have they been provided with satellite gear.

he's producing too many explosions in Ukraine which aren't making more than untidy but valueless craters

Those are to disrupt civilians. There are interesting comments about that concerning shock and awe also the need to still fight for Baghdad. Whole thing - civilian deaths in excess of 180,000.

Biden has said that he believes Putin won't go nuclear,

In some ways in terms of gaining territory they aren't much use due to contamination. Let off a big one and fallout has to be considered. It could well finish up falling on Russia or elsewhere. If he did that the extreme east of Ukraine is probably favourite but rather weather dependent. The things only really fit in with MAD were that sort of aspect doesn't really matter. All sides have had it anyway. One of the thoughts on ER nuclear shells was ideal for use in Warsaw pact countries as they limit the damage. It seems small is best as the ER aspect is more efficient. They still have a conventional yield.

Russia doesn't want a war with the US. They would not win and they know that. Putin wants to push as hard as he can to take Ukraine without provoking NATO to intervene directly.

I suppose NATO could say they want a special military operation and have no intention of invading Russia but just driving them out of Ukraine. However they would need to go rather destructive or run an urban war. Maybe they will but I don't think you are fully accounting for MAD. The USA has it's equivalent of Cuba in some ways. Their warheads in Europe and some others over here also pointing at Russia. This may well show the balance. It was similar when missile limits were discussed more openly then they all went multiple warheads.

Number of nuclear warheads worldwide as of January 2022 | Statista

As a weapon of mass destruction, nuclear warheads are part of the defense arsenal of some countries in the world.

www.statista.com

Missile silos seem to have disappeared and replaced with mobile and submarines, Not sure if BT towers are still around but those appeared to be part of the UK's nuclear war management centre system. Maybe they have others now.

Ukraine today were saying their subways are nuclear proof. I assume Kyiv. Ok if they know one is coming or all in anyway. No one knows what is in a missile until it goes off.

 

[albaPhenom]

Really? Russia has more nuclear warheads than the US. Now compare the number of anything, in range.

The war isn't between Russia and the US, it's on Russia's doorstep with a neighbour.
What counts, is what's in range and available for use.

Russia we've seen also has an enormous capacity to screw up, which is a bigger factor than what's thousands of miles away.

Perhaps the new top army guy will sort out the incoming western arms. Then what?

Russia has more nukes... and what?

They're a pointless weapon of last resort with massive diminishing returns beyond the point of having enough of them to destroy the world two or three times over.

I haven't read the last 5-6 pages of responses so I'm having trouble detangling what it is you're trying to say here.

If you're talking about range, America has the greatest ability to project force anywhere in the world than any other nation bar none. In in an imaginary world with no nuclear weapons, If America wished to hem Russia in and destroy them with conventional warfare, they would have no trouble doing this.

Russia is essentially a broke d**k paper tiger with massive amounts of useless land mass, an economy the size of Portugal, out of control top to bottom corruption and kleptomania, badly maintained 2nd rate military hardware which is quickly proving itself redundant in modern warfare and their troops seem badly trained and poorly motivated.

Explain what you mean by the new guy "sorting out the incoming western arms", what are specifically referring to here?

 

[ajohn]

"sorting out the incoming western arms",

Currently we wouldn't get to hear about if Russia did. The info coming out in areas like this has always been restricted. It seems more so of late.

 

[^woody^]

I've been looking at some details about Russia recently.

Apparently apart from the likes of the big cities, around 70% of Russia, - the towns, villages, roads infra structure etc, is a right shiithole. And I don't just mean shiithole like the local council estate, I mean real shiithole with falling down buildings, debris in the streets, vehicle wrecks strewn about, graffiti everywhere, rubbish inside blocks of flats lobbie's, no toilets, no gas!! and just like what the Russians are making Ukraine look like.

I knew there was a lot of poverty and a lot of concrete block housing, but it is actually even worse. A lot looks worse than the worst parts of the third world.

 

[Charlie George]

Currently we wouldn't get to hear about if Russia did. The info coming out in areas like this has always been restricted. It seems more so of late.

Ukraine have had a well known news blackout recently as they retake areas, don't want the ruskies reading about the early stages of counter attacks do we.

 

[Charlie George]

I've been looking at some details about Russia recently.

Apparently apart from the likes of the big cities, around 70% of Russia, - the towns, villages, roads infra structure etc, is a right shiithole. And I don't just mean shiithole like the local council estate, I mean real shiithole with falling down buildings, debris in the streets, vehicle wrecks strewn about, graffiti everywhere, rubbish inside blocks of flats lobbie's, no toilets, no gas!! and just like what the Russians are making Ukraine look like.

I knew there was a lot of poverty and a lot of concrete block housing, but it is actually even worse. A lot looks worse than the worst parts of the third world.

I mentioned lack of toilets on another thread and got laughed at by a poster, 40 million russians don't have an indoor toilet.

 

[ajohn]

I've been looking at some details about Russia recently.

You mean scenes like this - a place picked at random.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Google wont let me look at any more. However I have been there - have you?

 

[Charlie George]

This is the same area, did you see it when you was there.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[ajohn]

This is the same area, did you see it when you was there.

But it isn't as you described is it.