Weapons shortage

[JohnD]

Is that a list showing that bombing civillians won a war?

No, it's a list showing it didn't.

 

[IT Minion]

Ukraine has struck against targets on Russian soil. They don't do it often but they have.

Drone crashes into Russian oil refinery in possible attack

Video shared on social media shows an explosion at the Novoshakhtinsk plant

www.theguardian.com

The idea that Ukraine will suddenly start a Russian style strategic bombing campaign is bizarre. They can't and there's nothing to make anyone think they'd try even if they could.

 

[transam]

I am not aware of any first world country being carpet bombed in recent times ?

 

[transam]

Japan surrenderd in 1945

North Vietnam were bombed ?? To the negotiating table )??

 

[JohnD]

Japan surrenderd in 1945

North Vietnam were bombed ?? To the negotiating table )??

This was when they negotiated the defeat of the US and the surrender of South Vietnam? I think your memory is at fault.

Who do you think won the Vietnam war?

 

[ajohn]

Meanwhile, Putin can create havoc with strategic strikes over the entire area of Ukraine, stop power production, break water supplies and the rest. The west couldn't stop it and wouldn't bomb Russia.

it looks like the latest strikes in Ukraine are of this type. BBC etc say infrastructure and 20 cities. War In Ukraines says substations and that has seriously interfered with their power grid. They redid a few yesterday. Water and power can be ideal things to hit in any war and this has been done before. Some of the other hits are look what we can do style. Those are usually done when fewer people are around. Kids playgrounds get mentioned but not when full of kids. Any ex soviet state is likely to have loads of them around. I'm not excusing Russia just pointing something out. They might adopt a different policy.

Most western aid comes through Poland, via a dozen or so main routes. Satellites will tell him which ar bases near the border are being used, so that's far from invulnerable.

We know the resolution of visual wavelength etc satellites. We have no idea what the radar one can do other than they are up there. There are highly likely to be killer satellites up there as well just intended to take out others. iCBM's don't need them. They say they use stellar navigation.

Brandon Weichert. Theorising and making a point but neglecting to say all countries will have ideas about messing up others any way they can. No one really knows who messed up the gas pipes or why. Doing it doesn't need a high level weaponised country. It could probably be done from a wide variety of boats and available explosives even down to the level used in mines. Even IRA paxo. Latest "doubts", mention of it not being a truck bomb on the bridge. Probably from some expert or the other. If sub sea coms were knocked out there would still be ample scope for who did it.

 

[Justin Passing]

This is your claim that I commented on. It isn't true, is it?

Oh dear.
Which part of Ukraine having a handful of power plants, and a handful of oil refineries, and3/4 of the population relying on power for water, makes a resilient infrastructure?

How many broken railtracks or bridges does it take to stop a Ukranian freight train? Approximately One.

Bear in mind they'd have no road transport.

You seem to be struggling -

An interesting fact is that bombing the civil population does not win wars, it stiffens their resolve.

Name some more.

patriotic fervour against a common external enemy.

Like London, you mean?

Did it work?

Ah, you mean like the IRA bombing campaigns persuaded UK to give up?

Oops, no they didn't.

Let's see you try to find some examples supporting your opinion.

nd the population gets more resentful and hostile every time.

a list showing that bombing civillians won a war?

Those sort of squabbles aren't the same scale
Japan never occurred to you?
Civilians win nothing, unless they're the hostage. Then they win for the other side.
Hiroshima is the Putin option.


Maybe I have to spell it out - the narrative:

"From the man with the tactical table.
Dear Mr Zelensky
You're as annoying as finding the basin plug in my pocket doesn't fit.
You may have noticed that Lviv and Kutsk aren't there any more.
Sorry about the 1.2 or so million Nazis we had to get rid of to make sure you get the point, that where you live is actually Russia and we want it back.
Be a luv and get your chappies to lay down their arms and fkovski. Then give us every piece of the nice western toys you have, or we'll remove Kiev and those other little places, and your nuclear power stations, and that.

Before my vodka warms up, or I'll get cross.
"

 

[IT Minion]

They redid a few yesterday. Water and power can be ideal things to hit in any war and this has been done before.

If you're into war crimes, yes.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

 

[Justin Passing]

If you're into war crimes, yes.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

Crimes are irrelevant in war unless you're going to be held to account - Putin has already shown he doesn't care.

 

[Justin Passing]

Yes.

Glad to see you agree with me.

But you have to see the rest of it, the bit you don't want to see. Being nobdurate doesn't make it go away.

 

[ajohn]

If you're into war crimes, yes.

I think you will find Bagdad had this experience. Probably Syria too - oh that was the Russians. Problem USA bombed it too.

Both effectively urban warfare as Ukraine always is where ever it's fought.

 

[Justin Passing]

it looks like the latest strikes in Ukraine are of this type. BBC etc say infrastructure and 20 cities. War In Ukraines says substations and that has seriously interfered with their power grid. They redid a few yesterday. Water and power can be ideal things to hit in any war and this has been done before. Some of the other hits are look what we can do style. Those are usually done when fewer people are around. Kids playgrounds get mentioned but not when full of kids. Any ex soviet state is likely to have loads of them around. I'm not excusing Russia just pointing something out. They might adopt a different policy.


We know the resolution of visual wavelength etc satellites. We have no idea what the radar one can do other than they are up there. There are highly likely to be killer satellites up there as well just intended to take out others. iCBM's don't need them. They say they use stellar navigation.

Brandon Weichert. Theorising and making a point but neglecting to say all countries will have ideas about messing up others any way they can. No one really knows who messed up the gas pipes or why. Doing it doesn't need a high level weaponised country. It could probably be done from a wide variety of boats and available explosives even down to the level used in mines. Even IRA paxo. Latest "doubts", mention of it not being a truck bomb on the bridge. Probably from some expert or the other. If sub sea coms were knocked out there would still be ample scope for who did it.

If I were Putin , that's what I'd do. Taking out these "civilian" targets weakens the military machine. Who would imagine civilians themselves matter, unless they're supporting the military resources you care about? JD misses the point entirely.
Satellites are a very obvious, fragile target. Reagan put killer satellites up, of course Russia and China will have them too. Navigation systems don't rely on GPS now. The quality of data aquisition has been improveing in new ways for decades. Look at remote terrestial observation for environmental and agriculture uses. The Mil will have some multiple of that budget.

Brandon Weichert. Theorising and making a point but neglecting to say all countries will have ideas about messing up others any way they can. No one really knows who messed up the gas pipes or why.

He isn't neglecting that anyone can do it, that's obvious. The point is that Europe/the west is far more reliant on these fragile assets and vulnerable to attacks on them.
That's why I said look at the factual parts he points up.

 

[transam]

This was when they negotiated the defeat of the US and the surrender of South Vietnam? I think your memory is at fault.

Who do you think won the Vietnam war?

I think your memory is at fault
As you seem completely ignorant
As to what occurred

 

[albaPhenom]

The US military absolutely dwarfs Russia

 

[transam]

If I were Putin , that's what I'd do. Taking out these "civilian" targets weakens the military machine. Who would imagine civilians themselves matter, unless they're supporting the military resources you care about? JD misses the point entirely.
Satellites are a very obvious, fragile target. Reagan put killer satellites up, of course Russia and China will have them too. Navigation systems don't rely on GPS now. The quality of data aquisition has been improveing in new ways for decades. Look at remote terrestial observation for environmental and agriculture uses. The Mil will have some multiple of that budget.

He isn't neglecting that anyone can do it, that's obvious. The point is that Europe/the west is far more reliant on these fragile assets and vulnerable to attacks on them.
That's why I said look at the factual parts he points up.

Exactly