Well done Tony Blair!
- Thread starter kendor
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Yes you maybe right but to be fair I don't think the nurses earn a great deal to earn a living as many of them do a part-time job as well, let alone getting a mortage, which is a shame really.kendor said:
BTW does anyone know what the average earning for the nurses?
masona said:
Different grades etc ... Another mess up, years back, 'New gradings - more pay Yahooo !!" Stupid for the unions and colleges to agree to a system of umpteen grades !! I knew it straight away.... Managers did their best to downgrade everyone from where initial reports showed them to be !! And they got away with it.
Pay rates April 2004
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/nhs-knowledge_base/data/11.html
I guess not many above H or I grade, Agenda for Change may radically alter the rates.
One lunacy I have heard of, is consolidating the 'unsociable' hours payments across the board.'' Oh, by the way, probably voted in by the majority who never work nights -- nice little unearned pay rise !
Nightshift, disliked by almost all, at least retained the allure of 'time plus 30%', remove that pay incentive and another sore is exposed, suddenly no incentive to work nightshift -- already problems recruiting - more to come !! Part timers are returning, but are trying to dictate terms due to stupid Govn announcements regarding family friendly jobs -- someone has to do the unfriendly stuff !! I see the MP's have some nice incentives, trouble is they cannot see beyond bullsh it and rubbish management !!
BTW -- Here's a winner -- some husbands push wives back into part time nursing, then refuse to do their bit with the kids, when wifey is working unsociable hours ... more stress.
P
well its obviously a more complex problem than appears otherwise one of the political parties would have got it sorted, also it costs alot of money and we all won't to pay less, i'm in favour of paying more tax to get more services and the more you earn the more you pay which already happens. and more people need get off the dole and to go out to work no excuses these days as there is plenty of work out there (unlike in Maggies days). also grants, get rid of them, the only ones to get anything from them are the guys with the clip boards that dish them out. I just watched the news as I write this and it shows farmers and country people out with their dogs chasing hares around, they get loads of grants, how come their not at work?.masona said:
and get rid of them royals they cost us a fortune.
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Yes, I agreed, I do think chucking more money at the NHS will not give improvement to the service, it will waste more of it down the drain. I think it does need a shake up! I remember Gordan Brown said the NHS will not get anymore money until the system is modernized. This is why I don't believe anybody anymore.Richardp said:
I agreed with the rest of your post.
I was led to believe that the NHS has been through a reform with bringing in Management teams etc, so this now looks like that hasn't worked, i also gather they had been trying to import cheaper doctors nurses from abroad and this hasn't eased the situation either?
Something fundermentally wrong is going on then.
As i mentioned before, my local hospital doesn't appear to be affected by these downfalls and you seem to get a first rate service with little or no waiting lists, perhaps the hospital could be a model for others to emulate?
as i'm sure it receives no more money than any other hospital.
Could be the benefits of living out in the country as opposed to london?
Something fundermentally wrong is going on then.
As i mentioned before, my local hospital doesn't appear to be affected by these downfalls and you seem to get a first rate service with little or no waiting lists, perhaps the hospital could be a model for others to emulate?
as i'm sure it receives no more money than any other hospital.
Could be the benefits of living out in the country as opposed to london?
I have no idea, maybe your area have less population, less illness or maybe better organise?kendor said:
The average time just to see a consultant in my area is approximately 13 weeks or more then again for follow-up appointment, so anything up to 26 weeks depending what the problem is. Is the waiting time in your area less than this?
Not sure with the waiting list for your particular problem sorry but i was seen within the week on the first occasion and just over 3 weeks the second time for a different problem.masona said:
Perhaps your illness is very common? And lists are longer accordingly?
I have worked in France, they have a great health service but they do pay more tax, not sure if they pay NI. This is countered by earning more, and a lower cost of living anyway.
If houses were a lot cheaper here, would we just struggle to buy even bigger ones, or would we be thankful for a tiny mortgage and live a little instead?
Problem is, it is an academic question as you can't just go and slash 50% off the value of every property in the country, think of the negative equity!
If houses were a lot cheaper here, would we just struggle to buy even bigger ones, or would we be thankful for a tiny mortgage and live a little instead?
Problem is, it is an academic question as you can't just go and slash 50% off the value of every property in the country, think of the negative equity!
To train as a nurse in the army their start off pay whilst training is around 18000 a year, student nurse, which rises to 21000 on completion of the university course. Ok they have to do 12 weeks military training at the beginning but the earning potential is massive with the promotion. The thing that amazes me is that they usually work in NHS hospitals on military ward alongside their civilian counterparts and are more than likely earning alot more for doing the same job! 
D
david and julie
richardp said,
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, this is not strictly true. Many tradepeople are now on the top rate of tax in the UK and it's wrong. I'm not trying to score points off you on this, because I agree, but a lot of people thought Labour would bring this more into line. Apparently the gap between rich and poor has got even bigger, surely thats wrong? The mega wealthy(regardless of politics) are paying far too little into the system. The Gov also promised to stop the off shore tax fiasco's, we don't seem to hear much it anymore though.
As regards kendors's comment about the NHS in his area. Perhaps you've just been fortunate(depending on your viewpoint, none of us want to be ill!) but we have all heard of the post code lottery. Living out of the cities probably does help you too, the lack of respect and general violence towards NHS staff in the city hospitals is disgusting and probably also contributes to staff shortages.
Regardless of any of our political views there is little doub't the NHS is top heavy. I don't know about now, but they used to be the biggest buyer of BMW's in the country, presumably for pen pushers.
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, this is not strictly true. Many tradepeople are now on the top rate of tax in the UK and it's wrong. I'm not trying to score points off you on this, because I agree, but a lot of people thought Labour would bring this more into line. Apparently the gap between rich and poor has got even bigger, surely thats wrong? The mega wealthy(regardless of politics) are paying far too little into the system. The Gov also promised to stop the off shore tax fiasco's, we don't seem to hear much it anymore though.
As regards kendors's comment about the NHS in his area. Perhaps you've just been fortunate(depending on your viewpoint, none of us want to be ill!) but we have all heard of the post code lottery. Living out of the cities probably does help you too, the lack of respect and general violence towards NHS staff in the city hospitals is disgusting and probably also contributes to staff shortages.
Regardless of any of our political views there is little doub't the NHS is top heavy. I don't know about now, but they used to be the biggest buyer of BMW's in the country, presumably for pen pushers.
david and julie said:
You're right... they shouldn't charge so much that their earnings go into that bracket
(I'll just duck the rocks being thrown in my direction)Now, I'm going to put myself right in the shooting ground here and say... I think the rich are taxed plenty, a higher rate of tax would be totally unfair.
If you are earning £100K a year, you will end up paying about £35K in tax, PLUS all the NI contributions etc. Why is that? Do rich people breathe more air? Due to private schools and healthcare, in many instances they are paying MORE into the system, and getting out LESS!
So why are we so set on penalising those who are in better paid jobs? You say "but they can afford it!", well I agree that they certainly won't starve or freeze, but is it fair that you should tax someone a greater fraction of what they have, simply because they have more? I'm all for higher earners paying more, but I don't think it is fair that higher salaries should follow a law of diminishing returns.
I would propose something like:
This should be explained before I get flamed... "Tax" is the amount of tax (i.e. the percentage). "£" is that bracket of your salary. So, if you are earning a figure that is on the downward slope or the constant rate bit, you are still paying the higher rates of tax on your earnings in that bracket. Just imagine it like the current system, except at say £100K the 40% tax bracket lowers down to 20%.
D
david and julie
But Adam your answer is not a reply to what I said.
I am not refering to highish salaried people I am talking about the very rich here. These people pay less proportionately than we do. This is because their money is unearned income (just for being rich) this doesn't attract NI contributions like your salary, furthermore many of them have many limited companies, which attract even less in dividends taxes again no NI contributions. They are also in advantageous positions for perks etc. Even after getting one of the lowest rates in Europe they still clamber offshore for more greed. I am all for lowering taxes, for all, as long as it is fair and seen to be so. I don't think a tradesmen, teacher ,engineer etc should be on the maximum tax rate.
No true and sensible Conservative would think the same either. I am no socialist but we must never confuse Maggies confrontational and selfish brand of blue with the fairer and more honest Ted Heath version. Never forget its Maggies fault we are saddled with this crowd. Having said that these seem to be happy letting the rich get richer too, it is hard for me to imagine either Tony or Michael being fair really.
I am not refering to highish salaried people I am talking about the very rich here. These people pay less proportionately than we do. This is because their money is unearned income (just for being rich) this doesn't attract NI contributions like your salary, furthermore many of them have many limited companies, which attract even less in dividends taxes again no NI contributions. They are also in advantageous positions for perks etc. Even after getting one of the lowest rates in Europe they still clamber offshore for more greed. I am all for lowering taxes, for all, as long as it is fair and seen to be so. I don't think a tradesmen, teacher ,engineer etc should be on the maximum tax rate.
No true and sensible Conservative would think the same either. I am no socialist but we must never confuse Maggies confrontational and selfish brand of blue with the fairer and more honest Ted Heath version. Never forget its Maggies fault we are saddled with this crowd. Having said that these seem to be happy letting the rich get richer too, it is hard for me to imagine either Tony or Michael being fair really.
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