I've done a few 500 mile round-trips, and it's not such a big deal? For the number I do, (which, like yours, are relatively few), I find it a small price to pay. We've got a 600 mile round trip coming up at Easter, so I'll have to charge twice. I don't mind stopping for half an hour, twice, in a 300 mile trip.
Electric theft by EV owners causing charge points to be switched off.
- Thread starter ericmark
- Start date
Sponsored Links
I always find it interesting that some people go on about electric vehicles being rubbish because they think it is all too difficult. When the fossil fuel car was first invented, a person had to WALK in the road ahead with a red flag !!, but look at fossil vehicles now.
So for electric cars this is still very early days - those in flats or terraced houses without off street parking might be able to charge their cars at work instead of at home. We can't provide a charging point for every house overnight, but eventually we will see a solution.
During WW 2; did the government say "oh we can't defend ourselves against this threat"? Nope, they just got on with it and built more fighter planes and bombers.
Look at the enormous off-shore wind farms that have been put up around the UK; The infrastructure won't appear overnight but they are building it. They could put a small horizontal wind turbine on the top of every existing electricity pylon for example.
I hope they put tidal flow turbines underwater at the base of every off-shore wind turbine pillar as well - lots and lots of reliable energy in the tidal movements; which can be predicted and years years into the future. Tides vary in strength but they allways run, four times every day, no matter what the weather.
So for electric cars this is still very early days - those in flats or terraced houses without off street parking might be able to charge their cars at work instead of at home. We can't provide a charging point for every house overnight, but eventually we will see a solution.
During WW 2; did the government say "oh we can't defend ourselves against this threat"? Nope, they just got on with it and built more fighter planes and bombers.
Look at the enormous off-shore wind farms that have been put up around the UK; The infrastructure won't appear overnight but they are building it. They could put a small horizontal wind turbine on the top of every existing electricity pylon for example.
I hope they put tidal flow turbines underwater at the base of every off-shore wind turbine pillar as well - lots and lots of reliable energy in the tidal movements; which can be predicted and years years into the future. Tides vary in strength but they allways run, four times every day, no matter what the weather.
- Joined
- 25 Jul 2022
- Messages
- 12,580
- Reaction score
- 984
- Country
In not anti ev's, and not an owner of 1, but wary of buying one yet. Need a lot more to go before me before I make the step.
Range is my biggest concern. I either do very short trips locally or long distances, hardly anything in between. Local use is no issue, and an EV would suit my use. But then monthly trips of around the limit of the range of a new EV, raises the question of the range of a not new EV. A trip would often involve time in traffic, likely to reduce the range further, so an EV doesn't (yet) seem practical for my needs. And I don't want to own another car just to do longer trips in, it defeats the object of the move to an EV.
I could stop at a services\fuel station for a top up as I would if I was in an ICE car. A queue for fuel rarely lasts more than a few minutes before a pump is available. But I don't see that being the same for a queue of EV's. There is no way the same volume of vehicles can be charged and moved as with petrol or diesel. Indeed a stop with an EV will often be a coffee stop, say 30 minutes. How long a queue will it be before a charge point becomes free ? Also a fuel tank on diesel or petrol car may only be topped up weekly, an EV is going to need a charge more often
Lots of practical.obstacles to overcome before the same volume of vehicles can be in use.
Range is my biggest concern. I either do very short trips locally or long distances, hardly anything in between. Local use is no issue, and an EV would suit my use. But then monthly trips of around the limit of the range of a new EV, raises the question of the range of a not new EV. A trip would often involve time in traffic, likely to reduce the range further, so an EV doesn't (yet) seem practical for my needs. And I don't want to own another car just to do longer trips in, it defeats the object of the move to an EV.
I could stop at a services\fuel station for a top up as I would if I was in an ICE car. A queue for fuel rarely lasts more than a few minutes before a pump is available. But I don't see that being the same for a queue of EV's. There is no way the same volume of vehicles can be charged and moved as with petrol or diesel. Indeed a stop with an EV will often be a coffee stop, say 30 minutes. How long a queue will it be before a charge point becomes free ? Also a fuel tank on diesel or petrol car may only be topped up weekly, an EV is going to need a charge more often
Lots of practical.obstacles to overcome before the same volume of vehicles can be in use.
The number of vehicles in use must be reduced dramatically.
There is absolutely no way that every vehicle on the road today can or should be replaced with an equivalent electric one.
Being stuck in traffic makes no difference to anything. It's the distance travelled which matters.
EVs do not use energy when stationery. Unlike a petrol engine which chugs away fuel continuously.
EVs are charged when parked, which is the vast majority of the time that a vehicle exists for.
They are not driven around until empty and then refilled.
30 minutes is plenty of time to recharge most electric cars.
Contrary to what fossil fuel sponsored media outlets spew forth daily, most charging locations do not have queues at all.
For the few times that they do, other charging facilities are available. Just as when a petrol place is full / broken / out of fuel, other petrol emporiums are available.
However unlike petrol, you can determine whether an electric charging location is available or not before you get there, using services such as https://www.zap-map.com/
If you buy a Tesla, all of that is built into the car, and it will automatically determine when and where charging stops are required and alter the route accordingly should one of them become unavailable for some reason.
Sponsored Links
- Joined
- 25 Jul 2022
- Messages
- 12,580
- Reaction score
- 984
- Country
30 minutes is plenty of time to recharge most electric cars.
Contrary to what fossil fuel sponsored media outlets spew forth daily, most charging locations do not have queues at all.
For the few times that they do, other charging facilities are available. Just as when a petrol place is full / broken / out of fuel, other petrol emporiums are available.
On a motorway or similar, a car at a charge Point for 30 minutes or so will create a massive queue if other cars want charging to be able to continue their journey
The issue is deeper than just a comment about how it is currently, with relatively few cars needing the charge points. I want to see how this is actually addressed in practice before I consider changing to 1
Also, being stuck in traffic with lights and heaters on WILL affect battery power and range
Contrary to what fossil fuel sponsored media outlets spew forth daily, most charging locations do not have queues at all.
For the few times that they do, other charging facilities are available. Just as when a petrol place is full / broken / out of fuel, other petrol emporiums are available.
On a motorway or similar, a car at a charge Point for 30 minutes or so will create a massive queue if other cars want charging to be able to continue their journey
The issue is deeper than just a comment about how it is currently, with relatively few cars needing the charge points. I want to see how this is actually addressed in practice before I consider changing to 1
Also, being stuck in traffic with lights and heaters on WILL affect battery power and range
Not by anything that anyone would notice or care about.
Even assuming an excessive and unrealistic total of 3kW for a powerful 2.5kW resistive heater on all the time with lights and other devices taking another 500W continuously, that's only 5% of the capacity of a typical sized 60kWh EV battery for every hour that they are switched on. Stuck in a massive queue for 4 hours without moving - still only 20%.
In a more realistic and real world situation, a Tesla with heating and other items on in what they call 'camp mode' uses between 1% and 2% of the battery capacity per hour.
It's addressed by installing more charging facilities. Unsurprisingly that's why more are being installed all the time, and have been for many years.
5 years ago there were around 700 DC CCS connectors in the UK. Today there are over 6000.
True if there was only one charging point as there was 10 years ago.
This is more typical of newer motorway installations, this one is at Rugby Services and opened in April 2021.
- Joined
- 25 Jul 2022
- Messages
- 12,580
- Reaction score
- 984
- Country
It's good, but its not enough compared to the throughput of petrol and diesel cars. The queues will still form. Waiting for 3 or possibly 4 cars per charge point to move, will mean a wait of around 2 hours before you can get any charge.
Also, things like brakes dragging (which will happen as cars age), and all the other little electrical needs, will begin to make a difference. It can only deplete the available charge, regardless of how little that is. We all know batteries weaken with age and use.
I am not arguing against EV's, but just can't see enough support to cope with as many vehicles as will be needed, even if that is a lot less than the amount of vehicles on the roads all ready. There is probably enough for now (although most complaints seem to be around the lack of access to charging), but we will need lots lots more if EV's multiply like they are predicted to.
A few comments from my own experience (of barely more than 2 months)!
Firstly, I've only had to queue for a charger once, and that wasn't for very long. It was at a motorway service station, and I soon learned that motorway service stations are the LAST place you should charge! Most of them have quite old chargers now - 50kW, many of them. Forget those! Pull off at a junction where there are no services, but there are some chargers - at a petrol station, or a retail outlet or whatever. They're usually MUCH faster and also usually vacant. I've not had to queue since.
Secondly, trust the technology. The car's own navigation software knows where the chargers are, and calculates the trade-off between number of stops and charging time. If you don't like the car's own software, there are plenty of apps like Zapmap, or A Better Route Planner, where you can filter by charging power. I try to avoid anything less than 150kW. I actually found a 350kW charger the other day, at the top of a slip road off the M6. Woo hoo! I was there 8 minutes!
Standing still in winter DOES knock the range a bit. Cheaper EVs have resistive heaters, but you need a lot of energy to keep a car warm, because they're a lousy thing to try and insulate, with all that single glazing and the need for fresh air throughput! 5-7kW is not unusual for a car heater. High-end EVs tend to have heat pumps for their heaters, which are a lot more efficient. Mine will display the draw in kW when you come to a halt. It can vary between 1 and 5 kW in this weather or the cold snap we had before Christmas.
Firstly, I've only had to queue for a charger once, and that wasn't for very long. It was at a motorway service station, and I soon learned that motorway service stations are the LAST place you should charge! Most of them have quite old chargers now - 50kW, many of them. Forget those! Pull off at a junction where there are no services, but there are some chargers - at a petrol station, or a retail outlet or whatever. They're usually MUCH faster and also usually vacant. I've not had to queue since.
Secondly, trust the technology. The car's own navigation software knows where the chargers are, and calculates the trade-off between number of stops and charging time. If you don't like the car's own software, there are plenty of apps like Zapmap, or A Better Route Planner, where you can filter by charging power. I try to avoid anything less than 150kW. I actually found a 350kW charger the other day, at the top of a slip road off the M6. Woo hoo! I was there 8 minutes!
Standing still in winter DOES knock the range a bit. Cheaper EVs have resistive heaters, but you need a lot of energy to keep a car warm, because they're a lousy thing to try and insulate, with all that single glazing and the need for fresh air throughput! 5-7kW is not unusual for a car heater. High-end EVs tend to have heat pumps for their heaters, which are a lot more efficient. Mine will display the draw in kW when you come to a halt. It can vary between 1 and 5 kW in this weather or the cold snap we had before Christmas.
- Joined
- 25 Jul 2022
- Messages
- 12,580
- Reaction score
- 984
- Country
Good balanced comments.
My point is though regarding charge points. It's being judged for how many cars there are now. Not what it will be. I think we all recognise there is going to be a sudden expansion of numbers in the not too distant future.
Will it be charge points first, or as a catch up ?
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2022
- Messages
- 3,053
- Reaction score
- 810
- Country
"Supporting infrastructure was widely available from the get-go when _______ was introduced"
Fill in the blank and answer true or false
Diesel, Petrol, heck even "HD televisions" (supporting infra being HD content and streaming services capable of transmitting it) ... I think most things you'd have to honestly answer "false".
We're actually doing quite well with EV support..
Fill in the blank and answer true or false
Diesel, Petrol, heck even "HD televisions" (supporting infra being HD content and streaming services capable of transmitting it) ... I think most things you'd have to honestly answer "false".
We're actually doing quite well with EV support..
- Joined
- 25 Jul 2022
- Messages
- 12,580
- Reaction score
- 984
- Country
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2022
- Messages
- 3,053
- Reaction score
- 810
- Country
It does seem true that everything mankind does to try and fix things only makes it worse, but I get the feeling that tomorrow's world will have much lower car ownership than we currently think we need to make things work..
Don't worry, everything will work out; the interest is driving huge amounts of research into battery tech, even batteries that can reconfigure themselves physically internally to accept charge faster
Don't worry, everything will work out; the interest is driving huge amounts of research into battery tech, even batteries that can reconfigure themselves physically internally to accept charge faster
- Joined
- 25 Jul 2022
- Messages
- 12,580
- Reaction score
- 984
- Country
thank you for your re assurance, but it doesn't carry any water yet.
I don't think we are ready for the surge in vehicles that's going to happen soon. I look at charging points on my travels. 4 or 6 points at most, at most services, won't cater for 20 cars, let alone 200 or more
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2022
- Messages
- 3,053
- Reaction score
- 810
- Country
Are we due a surge in vehicles soon? What's the driver?
I'm not sure we do that badly? What tends to happen, however, is that we forget the bad things, once the generation that could remember them dies off. Oddly, the ICE motor car was an environmental saviour in its day. Our streets were running with horse ****. The flies on the dung got everywhere and carried disease wherever they went. Thousands of dead horse carcasses littered London's streets very year....
The motor car changed all that. We were, of course, blissfully ignorant of its downside. And yet, as the last people who can't remember motor vehicles have died off, all we are left with, are the current problems it brought, not the solutions to the problems it solved.
The NHS is going through something similar. As the last of the generation who couldn't afford to pay the doctor die off, all we are left with, are the ones who can remember the problems of the NHS, but take its benefits for granted.
EVs are solving some problems, but not others - and of course, creating a few new ones. 20 years after the first motor cars first stated to appear, the fuelling infrastructure was nothing LIKE as good as the EV "fuelling" infrastructure is today. In that respect, I think we're already ahead of the game. Without getting too political, we are a capitalist society and we have a Conservative government. "Small State and big private sector" is their creed. Charging stations are privately owned and have to work for profit. The rollout of those stations, depends largely on people buying EVs to drive the demand for new charger installation. We're in a chicken-and-egg situation.
Sponsored Links
Similar threads
