EV are they worth it?

[morqthana]

Less than that on most ICEs. Maybe just getting close on those massive "cathedral" engines they have in ships.

Nothing to do with efficiency, but some interesting calculations of what is the theoretical maximum power you could get from a single cylinder 50cc 2-stroke. (Truly theoretical, ignoring all practical matters such as mechanical stresses, getting enough air and fuel in, and so on).

What's the highest HP that can be squeezed from a 50cc?

A post in the Performance moped forum by Jeff M

www.mopedarmy.com

Jump down to the appropriate point by searching on the page for 'Moby'.

But before anybody does, have a guess.

 

[morqthana]

Nah... you'd never see ICE drivers being selfish or entitled...

'Dad & son' brawl breaks out at petrol station forecourt amid fuel panic

A BRAWL at an Esso fuel station, said to be between two dads and their sons, exploded amid petrol shortage fears. The four men traded blows during a shocking fight in the forecourt of an Esso petro…

www.thesun.co.uk

If you drive an ICEV like a tw@, you'll drive an EV like one.

If you ride a push-bike like a tw@, you'll ride an e-bike like one.

 

[Brigadier]

Nothing to do with efficiency, but some interesting calculations of what is the theoretical maximum power you could get from a single cylinder 50cc 2-stroke. (Truly theoretical, ignoring all practical matters such as mechanical stresses, getting enough air and fuel in, and so on).

What's the highest HP that can be squeezed from a 50cc?

A post in the Performance moped forum by Jeff M

www.mopedarmy.com

Jump down to the appropriate point by searching on the page for 'Moby'.

But before anybody does, have a guess.

IIRC, the most efficient ICE "car" engines are those in F1, at approaching 50%.

Ridiculously expensive, fragile, and have to be fettled and fondled pretty much the entire time they're not actually in use.

 

[morqthana]

Ridiculously expensive, fragile, and have to be fettled and fondled pretty much the entire time they're not actually in use.

I had a girlfriend like that once.

 

[morqthana]

I wonder what the efficiency is of the engines in The Lancaster that flew over my house a little earlier.

 

[flameport]

Is there a way to open a Tesla mechanically from outside if the 12V system has failed?

Not mechanically - if the 12V battery has failed, you need to connect an external 12V power supply to the vehicle via two wires accessible from the towing eye cover, which will open the front so that the 12V battery can either be replaced or a temporary supply connected there.

But I can also see the lunacy of car designers deciding that because it's a EV, everything has to be electric, including things which are perfectly OK left mechanical.

That isn't unique to EVs, most petrol and diesel vehicles have electric items that could have been mechanical.

 

[JohnD]

I have a couple of cars where the doors and the boot are normally unlocked electronically, with the fob or interior buttons.

Both have a keylock on the drivers door.

One of them has an emergency keylock on the boot, where the battery lives.

The other doesn't, and the hatch cannot be opened with a flat battery, except with tools from inside. Users complain that they have to clamber over the seats to get to the concealed rear battery compartment, or to reach the internal bonnet latch. It's very awkward if the car is tightly parked or in a garage.

The cost of an emergency keylock would be trivial.

 

[morqthana]

Not mechanically - if the 12V battery has failed, you need to connect an external 12V power supply to the vehicle via two wires accessible from the towing eye cover, which will open the front so that the 12V battery can either be replaced or a temporary supply connected there.

Bonkers

Utterly bonkers and utterly unnecessary, and designed by an utter idiot who should never have been allowed anywhere near car design.

That isn't unique to EVs, most petrol and diesel vehicles have electric items that could have been mechanical.

There's a bit of a difference between not being able to adjust your seat whilst parked because your battery has gone flat, and not being able to get in.

 

[morqthana]

I have a couple of cars where the doors and the boot are normally unlocked electronically, with the fob or interior buttons.

I have one, and ditto.

Both have a keylock on the drivers door.

Ditto

One of them has an emergency keylock on the boot, where the battery lives.

My battery is in the engine compartment, which is opened mechanically from inside the car.

The other doesn't, and the hatch cannot be opened with a flat battery, except with tools from inside. Users complain that they have to clamber over the seats to get to the concealed rear battery compartment, or to reach the internal bonnet latch. It's very awkward if the car is tightly parked or in a garage.

Surely if you have to clamber over seats you're inside, so it would be just as awkward if you were parked in the middle of the Sahara? And when was the last time anybody made a car where you could open the bonnet from the outside only?

The cost of an emergency keylock would be trivial.

So would the cost of a cable release inside the passenger compartment.

But if you find that this is a frequent issue for you, for whatever reason, maybe you should get one of those 12V lithium batteries with the protected reserve.

 

[Avocet]

I wonder how many of the anti-EV liars and bigots who (I'm sure) touted that incident as another example of how EVs are out to kill everybody retracted and apologised for their claims when the truth emerged?


I can easily see how people might not study the manual, and learn how to operate the manual release, or to do that but not familiarise themselves with it well enough to be able to use it when panicking as their car fills with smoke.

But I can also see the lunacy of car designers deciding that because it's a EV, everything has to be electric, including things which are perfectly OK left mechanical.

Is there a way to open a Tesla mechanically from outside if the 12V system has failed? Or other cars designed by stylists who didn't think things through? And what use is an internal manual release to a child in a car seat in a car which has locked their parent out? (Disclaimer - I've read stories of those at a summary level, have never looked into any of them in detail to see if the actual facts are more nuanced).

And of course the anti-EV crowd will use those incidents to justify their stance despite being unable to show how such door locking systems are intrinsic to the nature of EVs, and how EVs simply cannot be designed without auto-locking, and with mechanical door handles etc.

On a related topic, I learned recently that (at least) one maker of 12V car batteries produces a lithium one with intelligence which stops it from totally discharging. Once the charge drops below a certain threshold it disconnects, preserving what's left, and the disconnection can be overridden by a phone app over Bluetooth. So if you get back to your car where a fault (the car's, or yours) would normally have rendered the battery dead, you can turn it back on, open the doors, get in and start it up. For once, a solution not in search of a problem.

Good post! I've also wondered about the wisdom of getting "too clever" when it comes to systems that people might have to rely on in an emergency. Many years ago, I worked for a sports car company and designed a really weird door opening system. It worked little better than a more conventional system, but it attracted a lot of attention and was a talking point among motoring journalists and owners alike. However, I did always worry that one day, someone would crash one, in the dark, and in their groggy, post-crash stupor, not be able to find the door release. I guess the main difference was that it was the only way to open the door, so once you were used to it, it was relatively intuitive. The Tesla emergency system, of course, isn't what's normally used. I've seen quite a few YouTube videos of people who have claimed to have been "locked" in their Tesla's, when, in fact, they've just not known about the emergency release.

 

[Avocet]

I'm trying to think if the examples I've seen reported were all in salt water?

Shouldn't make a difference. If the pack is sealed against water ingress, it'll keep salt water out, just as easily as fresh water. Obviously the car will rust much faster, and driving cars through deep seawater is a pretty stupid thing to do anyway (even ICEs), but people do indeed do stupid things.

Of course, if the pack ISN'T completely sealed...

And that's something I'd worry about more. They almost certainly ARE very well sealed, and you can do the party piece when the car is new, and tight, and not in the least bit rusty, and nobody has ever had the battery pack out to do any work on it, or jacked it up somewhere stupid to change a wheel... But when it's had (say) 10 years of hard use?

Ah... But what am I thinking?! It's an EV! Everyone knows it's not going to last 10 years - it will have set itself on fire long before then! Or at the very least, be on its 15th battery pack or have bankrupted it's owner with it's depreciation... Maybe all three, if he's really unlucky...

 

[Avocet]

I wonder what the efficiency is of the engines in The Lancaster that flew over my house a little earlier.

 

[Avocet]

Not mechanically - if the 12V battery has failed, you need to connect an external 12V power supply to the vehicle via two wires accessible from the towing eye cover, which will open the front so that the 12V battery can either be replaced or a temporary supply connected there.


That isn't unique to EVs, most petrol and diesel vehicles have electric items that could have been mechanical.

I think at least some models have an emergency mechanical opening mechanism. Either a Bowden cable tucked behind a flap in the wheel arch liner, or push on the opposite end of the door handle to pivot it out. The thing is, that's not peculiar to EVs. Pretty much all ICEs have central locking these days, so they also need some emergency mechanical way of unlocking the car.

 

[Avocet]

.

The cost of an emergency keylock would be trivial.

I think it's not so much the cost, as the increased vulnerability to theft that puts the manufacturers off? Maybe it increases insurance premiums a bit?

 

[Odds]

Like people who did low mileages and short runs, but rushed out to by diesel ICEs with DPFs you mean...?




A bit like electricity when that first came out... right...? Yeah... that was going to be the end of the world too...

View attachment 355100

Ah, the "good old days" when men were men and you could buy cocaine over the chemist's counter then pick up a tube of toothpaste with added uranium for that "brighter than white smile". You can imagine what future generations will think of the Nutjobbies who rage against the dying of their gas-guzzlers.