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You staunchly, albeit erroneously, believe in concepts such as "correlation implies causation"?
EV are they worth it?
- Thread starter ericmark
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Indeed, but as soon as it starts powering anything, (such as the house that's under discussion), it stops being potential energy.
Just put some numbers on it for us, please. Y'know, like if you go into hospital for some treatment, and the doctor says "well we could use this drug, which has a 1-in-10,000 risk of such-and-such a side effect, or we could use this one, which has a 1-in-25,000 risk of such-and-such a side effect".
I hope your neighbours each side buy one and park them in their driveways a few feet from your house.
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I am not the only one who believes that, though, the government too!
"Electric bikes, cars and scooters could be 'removed' from UK roads over growing fire fears"
E-bikes, cars, scooters could be 'removed' from UK roads over growing fire fears
The move comes as the Lithium-ion Battery Safety Bill moves to the next step of the House of Lords by entering the Committee Stage.
www.birminghammail.co.uk
From the link:
Australian organization EV FireSafe has compiled data from EV fires showing that there were 511 verified incidents of thermal runaway in electric vehicles (EVs) worldwide since 2010, including plug-in hybrids. There are approximatively 40 million EVs on the road, it said, pointing to the rarity of these fires.
Liliana Martinez and Rauan Adikey of FRISSBE , part of the Slovenian National Building and Civil Engineering Institute, compiled a study led by Prof Grunde Jomaas on fire risks associated with e-bikes and e-scooters. They reported last year that chargeable two-wheeler batteries caused around 21,000 fires in China, some 17% more than in 2022.
Speaking in the House of Lords, Redesdale explained that since 2020, lithium-ion battery fires linked to the charging of e-bikes and e-scooters have contributed to 13 deaths in the UK, with many other people seriously injured or hospitalised.
He said: “The ways in which people charge their e-bikes and e-scooters mean that these fires can be particularly dangerous. Many devices are charged in halls or stairwells—and often overnight, which is one of the reasons for the number of deaths associated with fires at home.”
Australian organization EV FireSafe has compiled data from EV fires showing that there were 511 verified incidents of thermal runaway in electric vehicles (EVs) worldwide since 2010, including plug-in hybrids. There are approximatively 40 million EVs on the road, it said, pointing to the rarity of these fires.
Liliana Martinez and Rauan Adikey of FRISSBE , part of the Slovenian National Building and Civil Engineering Institute, compiled a study led by Prof Grunde Jomaas on fire risks associated with e-bikes and e-scooters. They reported last year that chargeable two-wheeler batteries caused around 21,000 fires in China, some 17% more than in 2022.
Speaking in the House of Lords, Redesdale explained that since 2020, lithium-ion battery fires linked to the charging of e-bikes and e-scooters have contributed to 13 deaths in the UK, with many other people seriously injured or hospitalised.
He said: “The ways in which people charge their e-bikes and e-scooters mean that these fires can be particularly dangerous. Many devices are charged in halls or stairwells—and often overnight, which is one of the reasons for the number of deaths associated with fires at home.”
One side has no drive way. The other side is under my advisement and will never buy one. Brotha, I am safe as houses.
Seems to me the manner in which e-bikes/scooters are charged is the issue, not necessarily the batteries. The number of fires in e-vehicles is so small that it's statistically irrelavant.
Some cheap Chinese goods (like scooters and e-bikes) probably don't really comply with the regulations they're supposed to. Rogue manufacturers will just apply a "CE" or "UKCA" mark anyway, knowing that regulators can't check every item that comes into the country.
And t be fair to the manufacturers, we don't know how many of those incidents were due to an incorrect charger being used or failure to follow any of the manufacturer's other instructions.
Cars, are regulated in a completely different way, though. And car manufacturers are worth a great deal of money, so they're very attractive to sue. I expect that when this ill-informed MP starts getting into his bill, he'll realise that lumping EVs in with scooters and bikes, in terms of risk and regulation, is a bit like lumping bakery products in with medicines because they're both "things you eat"...
Ironically, I would share some of Nutjob's concerns about cheap, no-name Chinese goods with lithium ion batteries, sourced from poorly-regulated online market places. Unlike Nutjob, I'm not nearly so worried about cars, because I understand the differences.
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And to be fair to the manufacturers, we don't know how many of those incidents were due to an incorrect charger being used or failure to follow any of the manufacturer's other instructions.
Chances are they used an incorrect plug-in and left it on too long. Cheap Chinese products are known for their rigereous quality control, either, so better regulation on imports would be a step in the right direction. More tariffs, too, like the EU, and financial help for British business to grab a larger market share.
Chances are they used an incorrect plug-in and left it on too long. Cheap Chinese products are known for their rigereous quality control, either, so better regulation on imports would be a step in the right direction. More tariffs, too, like the EU, and financial help for British business to grab a larger market share.
Yes, I think that's quite likely - or used the wrong charger altogether, just because it had the same plug on it. Or, indeed, it could be nothing to do with the scooter, but some idiot plugging too many things into an inadequately sized extension lead, for all we know. That's why these things need proper investigation, rather than hysterical, ignorant people, whipped-up by manipulative folk on social media with some kind of agenda, rushing round with their torches and pitchforks looking for a "witch" to burn.
Better regulation is the key - but how? Making the manufacturer pay for it, will just push the costs back on to the consumer. Post-Brexit, our country is increasingly cash-strapped and unable to police incoming goods in the way we need to. I deal with the Vehicle Certification Agency a lot in my "day job", and they've been recruiting like crazy since Brexit, because they're now pointlessly having to duplicate a lot of the tasks that were done by the EU Commission. Great for jobs, of course, but they're "non-productive" jobs, paid for (ultimately) by the consumer. You can't "take back control" of your laws, without employing people to draft, administer and police them. Britain, (desperate as it is for "rest-of-world" trade deals), is increasingly being seen as a soft touch by unscrupulous Far Eastern manufacturers because they know full well, that it hasn't got the resources to effectively police what's coming into the country.
The most commonly used rechargeable cell in vapes, bikes, scooters, EV's, is the 18650 lithium-ion. If a device with one cell has y x 1 chance of catching fire, then a scooter with 100 cells, has 100 x the risk of catching fire. An EV, containing perhaps 1000 times the number of cells, has 1000 times the risk, of one of the cells catching fire. If one cell in pack catches fire, then the entire pack will go up with it - a lot of energy, suddenly released.
I think that might be a bit out of date? It was certainly the most common in EVs 5 years ago, and it's "the" most common lithium ion cells, but I don't think it's the most common lithium ion EV cell any more.
That's an over-simplistic take on it. The actual figures don't bear it out. There are WAY more scooter and small appliance fires than EV fires, pro-rata, despite EVs having more cells!
There were 921 lithium ion battery fires in the UK in 2023. Of these, only 118 were EVs. (And just for balance, there were 19,256 vehicle fires in the UK in 2023...)
So about 3% of cars on UK roads are EVs, but only 0.6% of vehicle fires are EVs...
In the UK, around 60 people p.a. die in fires caused by cigarettes.
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