EV are they worth it?

[IT Minion]

IIRC, the large Mercedes place on the old A5 (Mile Oak, Tamworth) is being dismantled as I type this, and is being replaced with a BYD dealership.

This is a good thing, BYD are overtaking Tesla as the largest EV manufacturer. They've got a much more pragmatic and flexible approach to EVs and aren't aimed at the premium market alone.

Having said that they've been enjoying premium prices so far. I really like the Dolphin, except for the price tag.

 

[Brigadier]

Electric motors, and batteries, have both changed dramatically in much less than a hundred years.

OOI, how much - really - has the electric motor changed? Genuine question.
I know my cordless power tools have gone from brushed to brushless, but is it much more than that?

(I'm not fussed about the progress of batteries, in this post).

 

[bernardgreen]

really - has the electric motor changed

One change is the ability of the "motor" to be an efficient generator when it is used for regenerative braking.

 

[Brigadier]

One change is the ability of the "motor" to be an efficient generator when it is used for regenerative braking.

How though?
Is it something changed with the motor fundamentals itself, or the gubbins associated with it?

 

[bernardgreen]

When the motor design uses permanent magnets to create the magnetic "field" it is already an efficient generator.

When the motor design uses field windings to create the magnetic "field" it needs something extra to create and control the current in the field winding.

There are too many variations in basic design of modern motors to be able to say how efficient re-generation is achieved.

Not all e-vehicles have efficient re-generative braking

 

[JohnD]

How though?
Is it something changed with the motor fundamentals itself, or the gubbins associated with it?

Neodymium. Lighter, smaller and more efficient

 

[ReganAndCarter]

So... Firstly, we know that the evolution of the petrol engine has been slow. In fact, if you strip away all the added convenience features, they're still basically the same today.

I always thought it was a shame that engineers spent almost a century and a half perfecting the petrol engine engine to what it is today - incredibly reliable, clean, efficient, convenient, powerful, etc, etc, etc. Now we're to throw all that development away on untried, untested and unwieldly technology without sufficient infrastructure for widespread use. No doubt if the writing wasn't on the wall for ICEs until we come to our senses, the petrol and even diesel engine development could continue apace to make emmissions negligible.

But remember the EV fanatics are being encouraged and aided by politicians. Like other politicians who were, until very recently, imploring us all to buy diesels. And still EV fanatics blindly trust politicians while driving up the cost and inconvenience of personal transport massively for all of us.

Dummies and rattles incomming!!!!!

 

[Brigadier]

I always thought it was a shame that engineers spent almost a century and a half perfecting the petrol engine engine to what it is today - incredibly reliable, clean, efficient, convenient, powerful, etc, etc, etc.

Likely that the gains have all been made and, miracle that ICE is, it has no more realistic and practicable improvements to be made.
And EV comes along, and is just........better in every measurable regard.

Like someone perfecting "banging a saucepan with a rolling pin".
And then the gods made Jimi Hendrix..............

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Like someone perfecting "banging a saucepan with a rolling pin".
And then the gods made Jimi Hendrix..............

Only advantage of EVs I can see is no blue haze from the tailpipe.

 

[Ollyfp]

My grandfather bought the first Prius hybrid. For him at least, it was an unmitigated disaster. He only used the vehicle thrice weekly, and one of those outings was purely for the purpose of [trying to] recharge the battery. Every time I popped in he had the thing hooked up to a mains charger with a cable trailing from the bonnet to the garage.
Given that his annual mileage was less than 3K, the sales staff really should have pointed him in a different direction - i.e. back into his old Citroen Picasso! Lol

 

[Ollyfp]

I always thought it was a shame that engineers spent almost a century and a half perfecting the petrol engine engine to what it is today - incredibly reliable, clean, efficient, convenient, powerful, etc, etc, etc. Now we're to throw all that development away on untried, untested and unwieldly technology without sufficient infrastructure for widespread use. No doubt if the writing wasn't on the wall for ICEs until we come t our senses, the petrol and even diesel engine development could continue apace to make emmissions negligible.

But remember the EV fanatics are being encouraged and aided by politicians. Like other politicians who were, until very recently, imploring us all to buy diesels. And still EV fanatics blindly trust politicians while driving up the cost and inconvenience of personal transport massively for all of us.

Dummies and rattles incomming!!!!!

I get it. So, my wife has a 1L (3 cylinder) Eco-Boost Fiesta. She's no hyper-miler, but she does drive it quite sedately. Anyway, I recently read that it's capable of circa 120mph, which begs the question; Why does any new petrol engine (for smaller vehicles at least) need to be any bigger than 1L?
Surely, limiting the engine size of new vehicles would serve to reduce fuel consumption and emissions in the short-term, whilst also allowing more time for the infrastructure for EVs to be developed?

 

[Brigadier]

I get it. So, my wife has a 1L (3 cylinder) Eco-Boost Fiesta. She's no hyper-miler, but she does drive it quite sedately. Anyway, I recently read that it's capable of circa 120mph, which begs the question; Why does any new petrol engine (for smaller vehicles at least) need to be any bigger than 1L?
Surely, limiting the engine size of new vehicles would serve to reduce fuel consumption and emissions in the short-term, whilst also allowing more time for the infrastructure for EVs to be developed?

Because at such low capacities, the car will barely get out of its own shadow (especially if carrying passengers, or a load) without the use of the turbo.

Negating having the tiny capacity in the first place.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I get it. So, my wife has a 1L (3 cylinder) Eco-Boost Fiesta. She's no hyper-miler, but she does drive it quite sedately. Anyway, I recently read that it's capable of circa 120mph, which begs the question; Why does any new petrol engine (for smaller vehicles at least) need to be any bigger than 1L?

As above, cubic capacity isn't all about top end. Such things as acceleration and having suffiecient spare power in reserve to get up steep hills is also a consideration.

I hired a Renault Clio last year which was 3 cylinder and I'm guessing no more than 1200cc at the most. It was great when you got it going, especially on the flat, and could more than send you way into speeding ticket territory on the motorway. However, when it came to hills it neeeded constant cog swapping and lacked the grunt to easily tackle them. Unless you took a good run up, it ran out of steam on gradients and hills that weren't even that steep. My ancient oil burning van with 2,000cc engine would have tackled the hills much better than an almost new small engined car. Granted I'm not strictly comparing like with like, as the van is diesel and also has a turbo - but a non turbo petrol engined vehicle will have similar power in reserve

That's why I always prefer big engines that aren't working that hard to small over stressed engines that you have to rev the nuts off to get anything out of. Much more relaxing and the engine will last a lot longer too.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Only advantage of EVs I can see is no blue haze from the tailpipe.

I think that's part of the point

 

[flameport]

- incredibly reliable, clean, efficient, convenient, powerful, etc, etc, etc.

The internal combustion engine is one of the most inefficient devices on the planet. 75% of the energy from the fuel is wasted as heat.
That won't be changing today, tomorrow, or ever.

No doubt if the writing wasn't on the wall for ICEs until we come to our senses, the petrol and even diesel engine development could continue apace to make emmissions negligible.

That won't be happening either - any actual advances in ICE technology ended in the 1990s. That's why more recently there have been vehicle manufacturers installing cheat-o-matic software to fake emissions testing - they can't make engines any better so have to resort to other dubious methods. Also why modern engines feature super high compression ratios, nonsense such as 3 cylinders, deals where one or more cylinders is switched off in some circumstances, multiple turbochargers and all the other crap which is making modern engines less reliable and have much shorter lifespans than those from a couple of decades ago.