EV are they worth it?

[Avocet]

So there we have it. DiyNutJob, Avocet says you're a sap for supporting what he childishly calls 'big oil'. But it's fine for him to support oil producers. That's EV fanatic logic for you.

Makes perfect sense.

An unusual alliance, but... your choice... (Personally, if I had Nutjob on my team, I'd want to keep pretty quiet about it...)

 

[Brigadier]

An unusual alliance, but... your choice... (Personally, if I had Nutjob on my team, I'd want to keep pretty quiet about it...)

In the land of the blind................

 

[ReganAndCarter]

In the land of the blind................

..........................the blind lead the blind to the EV dealership.

 

[Brigadier]

..........................the blind lead the blind to the EV dealership.

 

[Ollyfp]

I'd like to bend the trajectory of this conversation a little, if I may?
I'll take that as a yes. Lol
So... Firstly, we know that the evolution of the petrol engine has been slow. In fact, if you strip away all the added convenience features, they're still basically the same today.
A benefit of this slow evolution was that, although owning an early motorcar was initially the preserve of the wealthy, punters with 'shallower' pockets were eventually able to save up and buy into the revolution before the technology was outdated.
Given that EVs have changed so much in a very short time, I would imagine that it's quite difficult for those who wish to 'get onboard' in the second traunch, to know when to buy, due to the fear of being lumbered with a worthless white elephant... rather like those who buy an iPhone just before the new model is launched! Damn it! Lol
Anyway, them's my thoughts.

 

[Avocet]

I'd like to bend the trajectory of this conversation a little, if I may?
I'll take that as a yes. Lol
So... Firstly, we know that the evolution of the petrol engine has been slow. In fact, if you strip away all the added convenience features, they're still basically the same today.
A benefit of this slow evolution was that, although owning an early motorcar was initially the preserve of the wealthy, punters with 'shallower' pockets were eventually able to save up and buy into the revolution before the technology was outdated.
Given that EVs have changed so much in a very short time, I would imagine that it's quite difficult for those who wish to 'get onboard' in the second traunch, to know when to buy, due to the fear of being lumbered with a worthless white elephant... rather like those who buy an iPhone just before the new model is launched! Damn it! Lol
Anyway, them's my thoughts.

Yes and no. When you buy a car, you don't just buy the engine. For years, ICE cars have sold largely on the "surprise-and-delight" features - sunroofs, aircon, sat-navs, cruise, self-park, voice activation, memory (and heated) seats,...etc. People wanting the latest toys, have always had to wait for them to come down in price. Without doubt, tomorrow's EVs will have more range, and probably some other cool stuff, but when you look at my parents' generation, Mine started out with a Reliant 3 wheeler. Mrs. Avocet's parents started out with a motorbike and sidecar! Even I can remember my dad installing a car radio in the family car for the first time. and then he bought one of those ludicrous foil stick-on heated rear screens!

Ever since the motor car was invented, the "next generation" of cars has always offered something extra, and we've always aspired to owning it. None of that is going to change with EVs. Yes, the model that comes after mine will have a bit more range and might be a bit quicker, but I'll just have to wait until that filters down the second hand market to a price point I can afford. My parents didn't stand there in the bus queue, thinking "We won't buy that Reliant, because in 50 years time, cars will come out with lots more whistles and bells"!

 

[Brigadier]

I'd like to bend the trajectory of this conversation a little, if I may?
I'll take that as a yes. Lol
So... Firstly, we know that the evolution of the petrol engine has been slow. In fact, if you strip away all the added convenience features, they're still basically the same today.
A benefit of this slow evolution was that, although owning an early motorcar was initially the preserve of the wealthy, punters with 'shallower' pockets were eventually able to save up and buy into the revolution before the technology was outdated.
Given that EVs have changed so much in a very short time, I would imagine that it's quite difficult for those who wish to 'get onboard' in the second traunch, to know when to buy, due to the fear of being lumbered with a worthless white elephant... rather like those who buy an iPhone just before the new model is launched! Damn it! Lol
Anyway, them's my thoughts.

The first electric motor predates the internal combustion engine by at least 30 years, and the first battery by at least 60 years.

Pretty much everything else that makes a car a car, is shared, so is no less unproven when bolted to an EV as it is when it is bolted to an ICE car.

 

[JohnD]

The first electric motor predates the internal combustion engine by at least 30 years, and the first battery by at least 60 years.

Electric motors, and batteries, have both changed dramatically in much less than a hundred years.

 

[Brigadier]

Electric motors, and batteries, have both changed dramatically in much less than a hundred years.

Are you saying or implying then, that electric motors and batteries are "unproven tech", as Olly is saying that ICE is solidly proven (being effectively unchanged for over a century)?

 

[JohnD]

Not unproven, but also quite recent.

 

[Avocet]

I don't think we can really say the ICE is effectively unchanged. Sure, most of them have a crank and pistons but that's a bit like saying electric motors still have windings and a spinning shaft that moves when electrical power is applied. If you showed a garage mechanic from the 1960s the engine bay of a modern ICE car, he'd be pretty lost (as many people on here regularly seem to bemoan)!

In both cases (the modern ICE and the modern electric motor) the big changes are in the management of the "fuel" to the motor.

 

[flameport]

New car registrations for August 2024.
EVs are up 10% both for the month compared to last August, and 10% for the year to date.

Car Registrations

SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT car registrations data published monthly

www.smmt.co.uk

August is typically a poor month for new car sales.

 

[IT Minion]

Given that EVs have changed so much in a very short time, I would imagine that it's quite difficult for those who wish to 'get onboard' in the second traunch, to know when to buy, due to the fear of being lumbered with a worthless white elephant... rather like those who buy an iPhone just before the new model is launched! Damn it! Lol
Anyway, them's my thoughts.

There has been a big price correction on EVs recently as the asking prices were slashed by something like 1/3 for some models due to a price war between Tesla and BYD in China.

That has meant second hand values have dropped.

New, cheaper, EV models may well do the same again.

 

[IT Minion]

The cost of the battery has dropped dramatically from the early days. The average price for a LFP battery pack was $130 per kWh last year.

The average price per kWh was around $220 when the iPace was released in 2018. Let alone $1,500 when the Nissan leaf was launched in 2010.

Because car models change so much slower than battery costs they inevitably get major readjustments when competitors release a more sensibly priced model. That's especially true now they are sold at a profit rather than as loss leaders or for compliance.

Given the massive disruption the Chinese brands will cause when they get around to shipping here in bulk we should expect more disruption in the future.

 

[Brigadier]

Given the massive disruption the Chinese brands will cause when they get around to shipping here in bulk we should expect more disruption in the future.

IIRC, the large Mercedes place on the old A5 (Mile Oak, Tamworth) is being dismantled as I type this, and is being replaced with a BYD dealership.