Fitting consumer unit vertically

[EFLImpudence]

Is it? I could not make use of it without action on the part of the DNO,

Not legally but it would be possible.

so I'm not sure that it could be said that I were currently 'being supplied' with it.

No, but they have supplied it. It is there.
I presume they have not disconnected the unused two phases outside.

However, there is one matter we have not considered, which might be important to this discussion - namely that of contracts. I presume that I must somewhere have a dusty contact from my supplier, and I imagine that will indicate what supply (1-phase, 3-phase or whatever) they have contracted to supply?.

Isn't that supplier the company who send your bills - the meter company?
Is that the supply that is meant?

Goodness only knows. The BS7671 definition of 'installation' is vague enough, so what they would regard as a 'sub-installation', I haven't a clue - and they don't define 'supply', let alone 'sub-supply'! In any event, the crucial 530.3.4 refers only to 'installation' and 'supply', not to sub-anything!

We don't know what they mean. This seems to be becoming the norm.



Is it that those who weren't taught English are now getting to be those who make the rules?

 

[JohnW2]

No, but they have supplied it. It is there.

I wouldn't personally call that 'supplying'.

Isn't that supplier the company who send your bills ...

Indeed so.

Is that the supply that is meant?

I would imagine so. It's the only 'supplier' with whom a consumer has a direct contractual relationship.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I haven't been thinking of them as they don't actually supply the supply; they are just called the suppliers - but I suppose that could be the answer.

 

[JohnW2]

I haven't been thinking of them as they don't actually supply the supply; they are just called the suppliers - but I suppose that could be the answer.

The answer to what? I don't think that particularly helps with the things we don't understand, does it.

I'm not convinced that they 'supply the supply' any less than do many organisations/companies who 'supply' things. Many (most?) 'suppliers' are, in one sense or another, just 'middle men' in a supply chain.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

The answer to what? I don't think that particularly helps with the things we don't understand, does it.

You can safely call it a single phase supply if that is the criterion.

I'm not convinced that they 'supply the supply' any less than do many organisations/companies who 'supply' things. Many (most?) 'suppliers' are, in one sense or another, just 'middle men' in a supply chain.

Maybe, but the DNO actually do supply the supply cables and with it the electricity supply.

Paper exercises to promote competition do not.

 

[JohnW2]

You can safely call it a single phase supply if that is the criterion.

I don't really understand - can you perhaps clarify?

It is, after all, the 'supplier' who provide me with a 3-phase meter, and who arranged for the fitting of a 3P+N Isolator (the one and only 3-phase component in my house {which I forgot to mention to BAS}) ... and I suspect that, if I could find it (unlikely!), my contract with them probably indicates that it is 3-phase supply.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I didn't mean yours but the one with two fuses removed.

Am I getting confused with the threads?

 

[JohnW2]

I didn't mean yours but the one with two fuses removed.

Ah - I took your "You" too literally (did you mean "One"? ) ....

Am I getting confused with the threads?

... I think you may be getting confused between two bits of discussion (one about my 'installation' and one about JohnD v2's one) within this one thread.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It obviously wouldn't, but it would change the 'supply' to the totality of the electrical setup (what else can I call it?!)

You could call it "a number of installations".

Anyway - if it obviously does not change what is already there, then either what is already there is a 3-phase installation, or what is there after the 2nd CU is added is still a single-phase one.

If nothing changes then what was there before and what is there afterwards must be the same.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I presume they have not disconnected the unused two phases outside.

What difference would that make?

 

[JohnW2]

What difference would that make?

If only one phase entered the building then whatever was within the building, whether one calls it/them installation(s) or anything else, would surely be indisputably single-phase, wouldn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Indeed, but what difference does it make to the installation within the building if the unused phases end at a point outside rather than at disconnected cutouts inside?

 

[JohnW2]

Indeed, but what difference does it make to the installation within the building if the unused phases end at a point outside rather than at disconnected cutouts inside?

To me, it makes no difference. However, it has been suggested that if all three phases enter the building that constitutes a 3-phase "supply", even if two of the phases are not used, and get no further than the cutout. If two of the phases did not (electrically) even enter the building, that argument could presumably not be used, even if three conductors (two or which were 'dead') entered the building.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

To me, it makes no difference.

What difference does it make to the installation, in any electrical sense?

If, after the meter(s), the tails went through wall(s) to CU(s), and an electrician, who was denied access to the room with the cutouts and meter, was asked to inspect the assembly originating at the/a CU, could he determine in any way that the CU and its final circuits was part of a 3-phase installation?

Could he detect, in any way, any change in behaviour or properties of the CU or any of it's final circuits if an unused phase was cut off in the street instead of getting as far as a cutout? Or if a CU and new circuits were installed, connected to a previously unused phase?

If the answers are all no, then it's hard to see how he can be said to have been dealing with anything with a 3-pahse supply.

However, it has been suggested that if all three phases enter the building that constitutes a 3-phase "supply", even if two of the phases are not used, and get no further than the cutout. If two of the phases did not even enter the building, that argument could presumably not be used.

That does not appear to be a suggestion with much logic underpinning it.

 

[JohnW2]

What difference does it make to the installation, in any electrical sense?....

As I said (and you quoted), as far as I am concerned it makes no difference to anything.

That does not appear to be a suggestion with much logic underpinning it.

I agree, and was only indicating what had been suggested (by others).

Kind Regards, John