how would you uphold law and order?

[thatbloke]

Absolutely nothing wrong with police keeping a DNA database. What do you think the police are going to do? Plant 20yr old DNA at a crime scene just to get a conviction?
.

Yes , they absolutely would.
Imagine when the Birmingham six were stitched up if they had their dna? They would most likely still be in prison now.

 

[spacecat]

you cannot base a process such as the implementation of a DNA database on the basis that a few rogue policemen might abuse the system

We would never have ANY laws if that were the case

 

[LooPrEvil]

Absolutely nothing wrong with police keeping a DNA database. What do you think the police are going to do? Plant 20yr old DNA at a crime scene just to get a conviction?
.

Yes , they absolutely would.
Imagine when the Birmingham six were stitched up if they had their dna? They would most likely still be in prison now.

Do you think they hold a bucket load of DNA for each individual? !!

 

[joinerjohn]

Do you think they hold a bucket load of DNA for each individual? !!

Well, I have a theory... When they feds get your DNA, it's sent off to a laboratory where they keep replicating it, until they have enough to plant evidence all over the country. Certain criminals are picked at random (rather like the lottery, but not as lucky) and their DNA is planted at the scene of a crime.
Once every 3 months the police have a DNA Superdraw, where some really unlucky crim, gets picked for a triple murder. Sometimes the crim they have picked is actually in prison , so has a safe 100% alibi. In this case, it moves on to a super rollover. Next time a criminal's DNA is implicated in a multiple murder, bank robbery and supply and distribution of controlled substances.

All sounds a bit far fetched, but I'm sure there's evidence a plenty out here in the cyber world.

 

[sooey]

All sounds a bit far fetched, but I'm sure there's evidence a plenty out here in the cyber world.

Say no more....he's on to it as we speak.

 

[ellal]

Why the need to replicate when you can fabricate....

Linky Linky

 

[joinerjohn]

OK just because someone is arrested and their DNA taken and kept (even if they are subsequently not charged or convicted of a crime) The very fact that their DNA is on the database, may stop that person committing a crime in the future. (they certainly might think twice about it) So surely it serves two purposes. As the doctor says, prevention is better than cure.
If that person subsequently goes out and commits some heinous crime, it could theoretically be solved using DNA forensics. Therefore it still holds, that innocent law abiding citizens, have nothing to fear from their DNA being kept on a database. The only people who fear such a database are criminals (or to split hairs common law breakers)

This way policing becomes proactive instead of reactive

 

[ellal]

OK just because someone is arrested and their DNA taken and kept (even if they are subsequently not charged or convicted of a crime) The very fact that their DNA is on the database, may stop that person committing a crime in the future. (they certainly might think twice about it) So surely it serves two purposes. As the doctor says, prevention is better than cure.
If that person subsequently goes out and commits some heinous crime, it could theoretically be solved using DNA forensics. Therefore it still holds, that innocent law abiding citizens, have nothing to fear from their DNA being kept on a database. The only people who fear such a database are criminals (or to split hairs common law breakers)

This way policing becomes proactive instead of reactive

By that logic, we can be far more proactive - lock everyone up 'just in case'..

Mind you, the constant attempt to track what we do as much as possible amounts to trying to create HM Open Prison UK anyway...

Where would you draw the line?

As I pointed out before, the system doesn't differentiate between the potentially guilty and the potentially innocent - it assumes the former, and those individuals who believe they are the latter are complete fools!

 

[Norcon]

What do you mean it assumes the former?
And why would I be a complete fool if I thought I was potentially innocent?

 

[ellal]

well, doesn't that just say everything.... if that really is "an everyday scenario" for you?!!!!

I suggest you look at the number of innocent people on the DNA database then, and work out for yourself how often it happens to ordinary innocent people...

But since it appears you are incapable, I've done it for you...

Linky Linky

And you still won't answer a direct question...

why is that?

 

[ellal]

What do you mean it assumes the former?
And why would I be a complete fool if I thought I was potentially innocent?

By keeping innocent people's DNA it does....

And anyone who thinks 'they have nothing to hide', is indeed a complete fool - and a liar!

 

[joinerjohn]

As I pointed out before, the system doesn't differentiate between the potentially guilty and the potentially innocent - it assumes the former, and those individuals who believe they are the latter are complete fools!

So, you walk around all your life feeling guilty? Why am I not surprised

As for the DNA database, that can never differentiate between innocence and guilt. It can however compare samples of genetic material. It's the best tool available to forensic scientists.
As a law abiding person, I have very little to fear, However were I a habitual criminal, I'd probably be very worried.
What your suggesting is we all become paranoid??

 

[imamartian]

As I pointed out before, the system doesn't differentiate between the potentially guilty and the potentially innocent - it assumes the former, and those individuals who believe they are the latter are complete fools!

So, you walk around all your life feeling guilty? Why am I not surprised

As for the DNA database, that can never differentiate between innocence and guilt. It can however compare samples of genetic material. It's the best tool available to forensic scientists.
As a law abiding person, I have very little to fear, However were I a habitual criminal, I'd probably be very worried.
What your suggesting is we all become paranoid??

i'd be happy to be put on a database... in fact i'd vote for taking dna samples at birth... unless someone can tell me how my life is in peril because the police have my dna profile?

 

[ellal]

So, you walk around all your life feeling guilty? Why am I not surprised

As for the DNA database, that can never differentiate between innocence and guilt. It can however compare samples of genetic material. It's the best tool available to forensic scientists.
As a law abiding person, I have very little to fear, However were I a habitual criminal, I'd probably be very worried.
What your suggesting is we all become paranoid??

Nope, I'm not 'guilty' of anything...I just happen to think that the state has gone too far in the way it controls our lives.

And all the DNA database does is to supposedly place a person at a particular location...

I have no problem with a DNA sample (taken on arrest) being compared with a database of unsolved serious crimes. But if no charge is laid, or an acquittal occurs, then that DNA should not be kept..

Keeping it on file assumes future criminal behaviour, because your example of a 'cold case' means that it would have already been compared retrospectively - that is the difference I was talking about!

 

[ellal]

i'd be happy to be put on a database... in fact i'd vote for taking dna samples at birth... unless someone can tell me how my life is in peril because the police have my dna profile?

There we go...

It wasn't that hard to say what you think was it...

So you want a DNA database for all (and btw, many samples taken at birth are already stored)...If it's voted for, then OK - of course I'd refuse legally under common law!

But then you start blabbering on about your 'life in peril' - just the same as playing the 'terrorist' card...

Your life might not be 'in peril' (as you obviously know nothing significant), but when your information gets sold on, don't moan when you can't get a financial service, or are made to pay through the nose!