I am so glad that Mrs Thatcher..............................

[peterperfection]

So the fans did cause the crush. It wasn't 5000 coppers trying to bulldoze their way into the stadium.

No, it was 2 senior officers who instructed the police to usher the fans to their deaths.

Looking forward to seeing some prosecutions soon

Arsearle wrote

heres a sacked copper tuning against his old pals

Never been sacked in my life, like yourself.....hard to get sacked when you dont have a job

Police dont sack coppers who have done something dodgy or fo0 ked up-- they just pension them off and arrange a job as a lollipop man or a asda trolly pusher and give them enough money to see their little sad life out .
It's no big deal snido- I'll send you a card from a 5 star in Mexico next month-- in fact- I'll email you a piccy while I am there .
old pal.-

 

[snico]

Just 5 star?

I usually go with 5 star S myself, or a diamond rated hotel. Maybe you will do one day

 

[sooey]

Bet you would like to see the paratroopers involved with Bloodysunday prosecuted too. Wouldn't you.
You can stick your enquiries where the sun don't shine.

You're a sad man norcon, have you thrown any petrol bombs at the police yet?

 

[snico]

Snico wrote

No, it was 2 senior officers who instructed the police to usher the fans to their deaths.

No it was a bunch of scousers hell bent on seeing a stoopid football match that led to the deaths.
Nothing more.
The truth hurts eh?

Looking forward to seeing some prosecutions soon

Bet you would like to see the paratroopers involved with Bloodysunday prosecuted too. Wouldn't you.
You can stick your enquiries where the sun don't shine.

How can the truth hurt, we all know the truth now after 23 years you idiot!!!!

 

[Norcon]

Snico wrote

No, it was 2 senior officers who instructed the police to usher the fans to their deaths.

No it was a bunch of scousers hell bent on seeing a stoopid football match that led to the deaths.
Nothing more.
The truth hurts eh?

Looking forward to seeing some prosecutions soon

Bet you would like to see the paratroopers involved with Bloodysunday prosecuted too. Wouldn't you.
You can stick your enquiries where the sun don't shine.

How can the truth hurt, we all know the truth now after 23 years you idiot!!!!

Like I said before. You wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and kicked you from behind.

 

[AronSearle]

{snip}This sentence clearly says to me{snip}

You can say it means "to you" whatever you want to, everyone else here will just focus on what I actually said, and what I actually typed.

I expect you are to used to trying to twist and fabricate evidence to bang up the perp.

The crowd are the ones who are responsible for shoving each other, and that blame should not be shifted to another party.....so we should not blame the police(other party) but blame the fans?

Your words, you can try all you can to dispute what you meant but you are simply not as clever as you think.

The fans caused the crush.

The police and management caused the bottleneck and general mismanagement issues.

That's what I said, no where did I say the police could not be blamed for their part in it, but you have wilfully misunderstood me, I don't give a fig that an "independent report" puts no blame on the fans, as that seems to be the only counter argument you can make.

 

[sooey]

Behave yourself searle, You were blaming the fans good and proper on that thread.
Whatever you say now won't change that. And no, I really can't be Rsed digging it up again either.

 

[AronSearle]

Behave yourself searle, You were blaming the fans good and proper on that thread.
Whatever you say now won't change that. And no, I really can't be Rsed digging it up again either.

I suggest you stop making yourself look like a prat, it took me all of a few seconds to find this.

//www.diynot.com/forums/general-discussion/the-truth-the-whole-truth.340392/

My own opinion is that some people from all the involved groups had a part to play, and you either charge everyone who did wrong, or no-one.

So there you go, clearly saying everyone had a part to play, so you and snico insinuating I blamed the fans soley by taking posts out of context, tripe, that's why you "can't be Rsed" to dig anything up, because you are wrong.



It seems an issue where the majority of people either want to blame the police, or the fans, and simply ignore any blurring of the lines and see everything in that context, including the perception that any argument to blame one group, must therefore be attempting to exonerate another.

Now I will leave the issue alone.

 

[sooey]

As has been well and truly explained to you by numerous people. Crowd behaviour at football matches is an extremely well known phenomenon. And has been for very many years prior to Hillsborough.
Police crowd control methods are also extremely well known, and usually result in crowd safety when applied properly. The issue here is that those methods were not applied for whatever reason, yet you still want to blame the crowd for being a crowd. You by your own admission have never been to a football match and have no idea whatsoever about what you are speculating. But that doesn't stop you from blaming the fans, which is what snico accused you of and what you denied. You are a liar and a fool.

 

[snico]

{snip}This sentence clearly says to me{snip}

You can say it means "to you" whatever you want to, everyone else here will just focus on what I actually said, and what I actually typed.

I expect you are to used to trying to twist and fabricate evidence to bang up the perp.

The crowd are the ones who are responsible for shoving each other, and that blame should not be shifted to another party.....so we should not blame the police(other party) but blame the fans?

Your words, you can try all you can to dispute what you meant but you are simply not as clever as you think.

The fans caused the crush.

The police and management caused the bottleneck and general mismanagement issues.

That's what I said, no where did I say the police could not be blamed for their part in it, but you have wilfully misunderstood me, I don't give a fig that an "independent report" puts no blame on the fans, as that seems to be the only counter argument you can make.

I never said that you blamed soley the fans, I said you blamed the fans also.

Dont try and dig a bigger hole, you know what you said!

I'll paste it again for you...................The fans caused the crush

 

[Norcon]

You two are taking this out of context.

The fans caused the crush

Which is true.
But not the sole reason for the overall disaster.

The enquiry is nothing more than sop to the fans. Just like the bloody sunday enquiry is too republicans.
Republicans played a role in the disaster just like the fans played a role.
Will they ever accept reponsibility in that role? Nope.
Geddit it yet?

I wouldn't expect sooey to take any other stance but the copper should go and catch himself on.

 

[misterdubya]

I'll send you a card from a 5 star in Mexico next month-- in fact- I'll email you a piccy while I am there .
old pal.-

Can you send me one please?

 

[Mikefromlondon]

The sad loss of life of those Liverpool fans was a tragic event, that could have been avoided.

According to my opinion, it happened through no one's fault, I am sure if anyone would have foreseen the outcome, then all that pushing and shoveling would not have occurred, the police would have prevented fans from going in and compacting fans below, at the bottom, against the rails or the cage!

Now, if you must blame something, then blame the railings,

The railings were introduced to stop fans invading the pitches, so now you see where I am getting to, had the general behavior of football fans been good, i.e. they did not have pitch battles, or pitch invasions, then these railings or the cages would not have been necessary, and any surge of fans pushing and shovelling their way into the seating area would have easily displaced fans at the bottom end to escape on to the ground!

So in a way, I blame it on the past bad behavior of many football fans in general, not particularly on Liverpool fans, and not on those who died, hence why I feel sad for those who lost their lives for absolutely no fault of theirs.

Therefore, in my opinion, blame lies squarely on the behaviour of the past football fans! or really these are not fans but trouble makers!

 

[AronSearle]

Dont try and dig a bigger hole, you know what you said!

I'll paste it again for you...................The fans caused the crush

Yes, I know what I said, I even copy and pasted it for you

Thinking that blame or causation can only be attributed to one party, and one cause, to the point that other's are excluded, is frankly simpleton logic, fit only for coppers.

You two sad barstewards are taking this out of context.

The fans caused the crush

Which is true.
But not the sole reason for the overall disaster.

HOW DARE YOU ATTRIBUTE ANY BLAME TO THE FANS YOU SHAMELESS BWASTARD, AN OFFICIAL REPORT DID NOT BLAME THEM!!!!

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I really think the blame should go to mostly the crowd control, their lack of communication and misjudgment, those officers on the ground could clearly see innocent fans under great distress, some crying aloud for help! those officers just did not see the gravity of the situation, should have taken down the barriers, sent messages to fellow officers at the gates to stop more fans coming in, and to needless to say some of the selfish fans behavior should also be taken into consideration, they should have known that there is only so much room and pushing and shovelling could only result in other fans already in getting hurt, all these things happen at a spur of a moment, no one could predict the outcome, everyone wanted to get in and watch the game, some at any cost! and the results are devastating for some families of innocent fans who lost lives.

There was a huge failure at all levels, largest obviously goes to the police, who failed to control the huge crowd outside waiting to get in, and the behavior of those fans outside! even after this tragic event, when some lives could have been saved, ambulances couldn't reach the victims in time etc. It was simply a tragic event, not just one person responsible or one team, so both the authorities and as well as those selfish fans outside contributed to this tragic event, they should not have pushed and shoved their way in past the police line, if i am not mistaken, the game had started, so there was this massive last minute surge of fans trying to get in at any cost! they pushed past the line of police crowd control, who were outnumbered and couldn't do their job well of keeping late fans out some I guess would have turned up without tickets! as they do in some popular matches when all tickets are sold out, they hope someone might sell them one at the door! They also rushed in!

This is according to my opinion. We can all talk about it and have endless debates and blaming each other, those people who died will never come back, but we have learnt something from this tragedy, hopefully in future events, we could avoid such tragedy.

By all means please say i am ****in wrong, I don't mind, I wasn't really there, but saw it all unfold on TV! so I am basing it on what I heard and saw mostly on telly!