Putin, arse, elbow

[Charlie George]

[QUOTE="Justin Passing, post: 5203435, member: 37242" He said one thing I didn't know - NATO countries have trained "tens of thousands" of their military.

The UK USA and Canada (all in NATO) have been training the Ukrainians, in the Uk's case going back at least 7 years, most other Countries in Europe(bar former Warsaw pact Countries) did very little in helping Ukraine for fear of upsetting Russia, Germany a couple of months ago supplied them with 5000 helmets, and wouldn't give permission to other countries supplying ex E German equipment.

 

[ajohn]

NATO countries have trained "tens of thousands" of their military.

Looking back in time with google the bulk of the training was from the USA and UK. It seems the UK put it over as field medical training but an army man said street fighting as well. It seems UK would not supply heavier weapons. Looks like nobody would as they seem to be using soviet gear other than the recent stuff.

I've been watching some AlJ news each day. It doesn't seem to be biased but some other aspects have come out. One for instance was signs of Ukraine war crimes on video. Artillery strike on a small convoy. Bodies about etc. Some number were just shot. Ukraine has answered, no denial mentioning this may happen etc and will be investigated.

They just had an ex USA ambassador on who following a few questions outline a possible diplomatic solution. Crimea, Russian as it always has been really. Tricky area Donbas. Maybe an agreement that it will be set up as independent with a proper legal framework. He thinks Putin would buy that. Then added if there is anything left of it. Ukraine is warning people to get out of the area while they can..............................

I'm getting the impression that it's the ambassadors that give most of the advice all round so maybe the bloke is correct but Zelensky needs to sell it. That has been mentioned several times over the last few weeks.

From this maybe Russia needs to obliterate anything Ukraine sends in the Donbas direction. I suspect they will try and cut off any Ukranean troops in the east. That may mean hitting more places in the way they have elsewhere. 2 weeks delay has been mentioned - pass. Some already gone.

 

[transam]

Apparently Ukranian reps (?)

are at the army base in Salsbury

looking at guns

 

[ajohn]

Forecasts seem to suggest months or even years of much the same. The latest is they may attack Kiev again. That it seems should be Kyev now.

Yet another area that has been carved up by empires in various ways. Lines on maps.

 

[transam]

Senior execs of the west’s biggest arms companies and there investors are preparing for a massive increase in demand for there products

Which Means overtime for the 650 employees at
A certain building sandwiched between a tyre shop and sports shop on an industrial estate in Belfast

we’re the N law and starstreak are
Manufactured

 

[ajohn]

I've heard of some going USA's way. A number of F something to Germany and $8b off Taiwan approved a day or so ago, Interesting to compare the F's with Eurofighters. Different radar springs to mind along with the Eurofighter being more agile. That comes from Harriers in the Falklands - rather tricky to shoot down. The USA bought a number and didn't mind their pilots over stressing the air frames to see what they could do. No one can just get into this sort of thing and fly them.

A cousin of mine I have not been in contact with for aeons was involved in military vehicles in Coventry. It seemed to be contract work - produce so many and hope to get further contracts even on totally different vehicles.

 

[Justin Passing]

I'm sure Pootn will love to show blowing up western kit on its way to the east. I can't imagine how the hell they'll try to move it there. It'll get spotted before it's even in the country, it's not like there's a lot of traffic.

I've been dipping into Al Jazeera, there's Indian tv on the cable too, a different perspective.

Anyone who thinks the Ukranian military are all nice disciplined people only has to look up the Azov Battalion. Neo Nazi, fits.
Also, don't like to say it, but some of the BBC etc is not straight, that "Maternity unit"? BBC made out it was full of mums and kids.
Russians said they'd left and the Ukranian solders were using it. That sounds pretty likely. I think there was one mum and one kid shown. Probably one or two people turned up because they thought they might get help? When the Russians "attacked a nuclear power station shock horror" , one round hit a training hut - hmmm.
And how many of those Ukranians killed in the streets were taking pot shots at the soldiers? What would you do if someone was shooting at you from their flat? You'd shell it. Why don't we see those things? Everyone has a phone/camera, and their phone network has been working.There was even a working cell in Mariupol until recently.

None of the above is any sort of excuse for the Puta, and we'll proably see much more in the coming days.

 

[Notch7]

[QUOTE="Justin Passing, post: 5203435, member: 37242" He said one thing I didn't know - NATO countries have trained "tens of thousands" of their military.

The UK USA and Canada (all in NATO) have been training the Ukrainians, in the Uk's case going back at least 7 years, most other Countries in Europe(bar former Warsaw pact Countries) did very little in helping Ukraine for fear of upsetting Russia, Germany a couple of months ago supplied them with 5000 helmets, and wouldn't give permission to other countries supplying ex E German equipment.

Germany has mostly avoided any involvement in any war since err that big one….

clearly Russian gas is a major problem for Germany

 

[Charlie George]

Germany has mostly avoided any involvement in any war since err that big one….

clearly Russian gas is a major problem for Germany

Didn't stop them exporting military equipment to Russia after they invaded Crimea, but they are one of Russia's biggest trading partners, France also supplied military items after the invasion.

 

[ajohn]

Also, don't like to say it, but some of the BBC etc is not straight, that

C4 don't seem to like to mention if both sides have shelled town,cities etc N of Kyev. Mind you they have a guy called Alex there and I have never liked his reporting. They are always very positive in one direction what ever the subject is. ITN maybe.

They are all limited by what they can show too. The beeb have shown footage where they aren't there so must have been supplied by someone. Kyev has been mentioned and that fact pointed out. I remember one school, blast damage and strangely empty and clean inside. The reporter pointed out that there was a military base adjacent behind a building and the damage to the roof on that looked like it came from the other side of it. Pass. They didn't show the base.

Soviet housing doesn't help with schools, large square with apartments around it children play area and often a school. I think AlJ was the only one to point this out. Big bang in the square and you can guess what happens.

I haven't seen any sign of Russia bias on AlJ but "citizens" in that direction may not have the same view of Russia as us lot tend to have. There has been suggestions that Russians look for certain people when they arrive. Also needing to wear white somewhere, they said a lady still had her's on a wrist.

It's seems Russia helped a lot out of Mariupol along the coast and then into Ukraine or into Russia if they wanted. Scarcely mentioned. It seems those who went to Russia were given money - bribe or need, pass. This when Ukraine wouldn't open the corridor. That is working now. May mean that Mariupol is actually captured, No sound of shelling this time when people were being fed. Maybe Russia stopped during the filming.

I'm not sanctioning Russia but I don't think we have a chance of getting full details of what over all is going on,

The training by the way has been going on since at least 2014. That's what I set google to. Rand,org reckon from Kyev's own figures that few of the Donbas fighters were Russian soldiers and mostly locals other than a couple of dates when Russian soldiers did join in.

 

[transam]

Russia the invader

but apparently

Ukraine is the aggressor

 

[Justin Passing]

Russia the invader

but apparently

Ukraine is the aggressor

He'd been reading the highly influential Inhumanitarian and wanted to slap them down cos they had crap cars that offended him. (Where IS cwomble?)
Puta just got a bit too enthusiatic.

 

[ajohn]

Ukraine is the aggressor

No some just view it as a war which it is. This one isn't very tidy and in general both sides will be involved in "naughties". That is too nice a name for them and they can take several forms. Genocide as some channels have mentioned has a very specific meaning. The other war is the war of words. It's called propaganded and needn't be true or exact from either side. Backers can have different motives as well. They can and do sometimes slant things to put one side at a disadvantage. They even have scope for how much advantage they give. There can also be other factors that can come into this. It could be argued that defensive weapons have helped yield the current situation and also allowed the west to predict what will happen over time. I hope not as other ideas may creep in at some point.

A Russian spokesperson summarised their situation. They are trying to avoid killing civilians and the only way of taking a city quickly is to flatten it. They have been doing some things Iraq style for that very reason and likely to have added some thoughts of their own due to what happened in Iraq. They wont be given any credit for that for obvious reasons. Illegal war and not the only one.

Things may be different when it shifts to Donbas but it appears that Ukraine's maginot line is close to civilians on their side but the land generally may be more open.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

A Russian spokesperson summarised their situation. They are trying to avoid killing civilians and the only way of taking a city quickly is to flatten it.

How very kind of them #WarWithAHeart

 

[ajohn]

How very kind of them #WarWithAHeart

There is no such thing really what ever the reason for them. Civilians get hurt and displaced. In more recent times since WWII some thought may be given to not killing civilians but some always die in various numbers and loads get displaced.