Putin, arse, elbow
- Thread starter JohnD
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Correct. There are mixed marriages as well on both sides. Families that have people on both sides. Some good news - the majority of people have moved out of the area in the east where fighting is heaviest. Why - they do not want to be on the fighting lines as they develop. Some probably have been before or close to it ~2014.
What some people find hard to get their head around is that it's happening and that has consequences. Pretending those don't exist will not stop it. Civilians will be killed. The rate may even escalate. Buildings will be destroyed. That's what shells etc do.
The head of the CIA decided to speak rather recently. I assume mostly for a USA audience. I've no idea what channels it was shown on. He gave Putin's outlook as he sees it - in essence he wont give up unless he has to. He has been feeling threatened for a long time so has cracked. However go back in time and the CIA have been unhappy about what has happened in E Europe as it was bound to cause problems. So the latest may be a told you so.
The UN head is getting very concerned about over spill to countries that have nothing to do with it. Fuel and food prices. Supply chain prices are increasing for all. Also hiccups in it which tend to make prices even worse.
An interesting list. Both sides are using broadly similar gear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Ukrainian_Ground_Forces
One person may pick up what Macron said about Ukraine joining the EU. Fortunately I heard Ukraine's view and they agree. Not all of Macron's comments were broadcast. The Ukrainian pointed that out.Because the steel works make it safer for them. The time taken to get them out ?? - done now and the UN team leaders comments were interesting. Not totally sure but somewhat over a couple of hundred came out.
There are 100 civilians left now - Ukraine numbers. Males of fighting age. Martial law where all can be called to fight is the reason for that. The soldiers there wont surrender.
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Curious - do you really mean that? or should sic be somewhere?
All the Conservative party
All those who voted conservative
All those who voted brexit
are russian symphaisers
Johnson is putins B***h
all the above is implied by eminent posters in here
they must know so it must be so
The Russian approach to capturing a city is similar to that seen in Syria. They surround a city and stop anyone leaving. Then they split the city into chunks and clear them. Each chunk gets subdivided forcing anyone in it into a smaller and smaller areas and are then cleared house by house by artillery fire or infantry.
The lines are not porous, anyone approaching them gets shot. Which means the civilians went the same way as the soldiers, to an area where they at least had cover from artillery fire.
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Looking at the map around Odessa and Transnistria, there aren't many roads at all, to cross the rivers. (Hard to find a goog map showing the border of Tr'ia in detail, at the southern end.)
Transnistria is pro-Russian enough (about 40% in the south) that Putin could fly stuff in and occupy it, though technically it's part of Moldova.
It wouldn't take very much to isolate Odessa with the right equipment. Meanwhile they can lob missies at strategic targets from the Black sea, isolating and flattening parts of it as they go..
The land troops aren't there yet. Eyes on their progress at their western extremity, in Kherson, Mykolaev.(sp?)
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I don't see ajohn's comments as supporting Russia. We are seeing a lot of biased news.
We all know that more of Europe has westernized over the last 'n' years. We may see that as those countries determining their own future, but from Putin's side it the thoughts and rhetoric are that it's a Washington-driven pressure. His/their frustration, reaction and made-up stories aren't entirely rational, but maybe even he believes them now. many do. Someone interviewed in Donbas said that the US was about to base nuclear weapons near where she lives.
Transnistria is pro-Russian enough (about 40% in the south) that Putin could fly stuff in and occupy it, though technically it's part of Moldova.
It wouldn't take very much to isolate Odessa with the right equipment. Meanwhile they can lob missies at strategic targets from the Black sea, isolating and flattening parts of it as they go..
The land troops aren't there yet. Eyes on their progress at their western extremity, in Kherson, Mykolaev.(sp?)
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I don't see ajohn's comments as supporting Russia. We are seeing a lot of biased news.
We all know that more of Europe has westernized over the last 'n' years. We may see that as those countries determining their own future, but from Putin's side it the thoughts and rhetoric are that it's a Washington-driven pressure. His/their frustration, reaction and made-up stories aren't entirely rational, but maybe even he believes them now. many do. Someone interviewed in Donbas said that the US was about to base nuclear weapons near where she lives.
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Syria is an odd ball. USA backed some insurgents. They wondered why given training and weapons they appeared to be loosing. They had found themselves fighting Assad's forces and |IS. Another factor popped up recently. Obama and France planned a bombing raid. Set to go and Obama cancelled as they couldn't be sure who would come out on top. Eventually Assad was backed by USA and Russian bombings. This is why he is still there. There is no doubt that Russia did bomb some pure Assad problems not just IS but those were a problem for Assad as well. Rumour says Assad is now looking for money to rebuild the place but no one is interested.
Fits in with my recollection of the news anyway - both bombing Syria. Troop involvement - I've no idea.
Fits in with my recollection of the news anyway - both bombing Syria. Troop involvement - I've no idea.
Thanks as correct I am not but the bias all round ........... I am not keen on that but it's unavoidable. I also feel it's worth mentioning that weapons kill people. It doesn't matter who is using them. It's a factor in wars. Built up areas will be the worst and it can in some cases be unclear which side did most damage.. In others it's obvious.
Reports suggest Azov and Ukrainian army earlier. There were reports of Kyiv loosing contact with Azov but videos have started appearing again. Azov appears to be paramilitary and always has been. It seems they and what could be called the Donbas brigade did a lot of the fighting in that general area. Seasoned troops maybe?
Pass on your other comment. The UN were very clear about who could be evacuated pointing out that soldiers must realise that they have to remain. Ukraine other than these 100 say all have been evacuated.
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Let me tell you now. The soldiers holed up in those bunkers are the Ukraine soldiers that have been in that region for several years terrorising the locals & branding their victims with swastika's. It's an elite bunch of Rushiyan vodka swillers that were sent in to find 'em that is now surrounding 'em, they ran back to their very established bunkers & dragged their human shields along.
Try to cut out the BS & propaganda, this is war.
Try to cut out the BS & propaganda, this is war.
I agree with that.
However during the waves of fighting ~2014 there were complaints from some when Azov moved out as they were seen as the ones that could hold the Donbas lot at bay. Sounds like they were sent were it looked like they were needed. The people complaining would just want the fighting to stay away for good.
The Donbas lot. I follow the comments in a link that I have posted a couple of times. Based on Kyiv's own estimates the majority were Donbas locals. When severely threatened Russian soldiers moved in to help. They have recruited further as well from locals. True I choose to believe that and it may be incorrect. I just don't think it is. Some were interested in remaining Russian. I don't think anyone disputes that. Their views now? Different subject.
The Azov bunch do have a rather dubious background
The battalion drew controversy over allegations of torture and war crimes,[11][12] as well as association with neo-Nazi ideology
This it seems has been stamped out. Initially the USA wouldn't help them with supplies and they were added to the terrorist list. Later they were taken off it. I've read at the Pentagon's request. It's not easy to verify this sort of thing. A number of other factors as well. Early reports can lack the war of words aspects if independently acquired. Tricky now.
Putin's latest is that Ukraine was about to take back territory. He is probably correct. That I must add doesn't mean I think he should act. He has - end of, things are as they are now.
That seems unlikely, after all the Russian army doesn't really care about civilian casualties.
As for running back to established bunkers, of course they are. Thats what bunkers are for. The Russian army demonstrated how hard it is to dig determined troops out of heavy industry in the Dzerzhinskiy Tractor Factory.
Given Russia tried to annex Mariupol in 2014 they've had lots of reasons to dig in.
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