Slavery Reparations

[gant]

I think as more and more take your view (which I've taken on board) which is noticeable by the amount of commentators who are shouted down by Bloom who thinks that it should all be about his view and only his view only, so think why bother. Then the clicks to the site will obviously dwindle.
There in lies the conundrum for owner of the site.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Hi Roy, you are wrong, again, ...i made my view clear only on Great Britain's role in slavery and Great Britain has benefitted the world immensely, you can take Medicine alone as an example of saving millions and millions of lives, no doubt some of whose cures and treatments have benefitted your family or friends.

There is no way you can judge that the colonies would not have made the same or better decisons if they'd been left to their own devices.
For instance, India was more advanced in many ways than GB.
China was advanced while GB was not established.
Italy/Rome and Greece gave more to civilisation than GB. GB was a far flung island of waring tribes when Italy/Rome and Greece were forming democracies.
It was GB's military power and cruel policies that funded and resourced the industrial revolution. In other instances it was the drug trade by GB that caused the collapse of other civilisations.
Their military power and drug trade does not excuse the role that western countries played in the bondage of slaves, and how the servitude of the imperial powers subjected their colonies, but it does explain how it managed it.

Secondly, i do not seek to shut this discussion down, i have pointed out that the diversions you take it on have nothing to do with the original thread and that is the issue so if you are going to clap back at me get the facts in order please.

Like diverting the discussion to drunken sailors? Oh, sorry that wasn't me.
Tunnels in Portland, Oregon?
The use of capital letters? Oh, sorry that wasn't me either.
The wrongs of our ancestors? Oh, sorry that wasn't me either.
The claim that if they hadn't been enslaved, they'd still be running around in the jungle? Oh, sorry that wasn't me either.
Or how long I'v e been a member, and how many posts I've made? Oh, sorry that wasn't me either.
etc.
But you choose only to criticise my diversions.
And you claim you don't want to close down the debate? Who do you think you're kidding?

That said i ill now take my own advice and leave you to your thoughts so i will read your retorts but am not going to give you the pleasure of drawing in another member of this forum with off-topic arguing.

You, and others are free to join in the discussion or not, as the mood pleases you.
You've given us your opinion of how GB saved the world, and should therefore be excuses for the cruel subjection of millions of people around the world. Then you tried to discourage others' participation.
But you don't want to close down the discussion?

 

[Roy Bloom]

I think as more and more take your view (which I've taken on board) which is noticeable by the amount of commentators who are shouted down by Bloom who thinks that it should all be about his view and only his view only, so think why bother. Then the clicks to the site will obviously dwindle.
There in lies the conundrum for owner of the site.

I suspect the owner of the site is more than capable of formulating their own economic decisions.

I am one of the few voices taking the opposite view to the majority on here. Without my input there would probably be no debate.
That doesn't mean I must be wrong because the majority are counter arguments. It simply means that there are many on here who disagree that reparations should be paid.
That tends to mirror the many users that think the EU will collapse, that asylum seekers should be turned away, that African slaves would still be running round the jungle, that the world owes GB for all the civilisation it's brought to the world, that English people were enslaved more than black people, etc.

 

[johnny2007]

You cannot argue by yourself people, let Roy have his opinion and don't fuel his fire... he has only been here just over a month and posted an average of 20 posts every day, he is turning what was a sensible thread into a time thief, don't let it be yours.

Himmy.

Could be Pat Ex ...

Himmy.

I gave him sound advice on how to rejoin under another account and avoid being detected.
He doesn't listen.
Out I go.

 

[Dork Lard]

The way I see it is . . . . Yes, there is an imbalance in society depending on your ethnicity, but I'd argue whether the blame for that can be put down to slavery.

It is a complex problem & complex problems do not have simple solutions.

The idea of monetary reparations makes no sense to me whatsoever & it only generates more questions than it has answers for.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Himmy.

Himmy.

I gave him sound advice on how to rejoin under another account and avoid being detected.
He doesn't listen.
Out I go.

Be careful otherwise you'll have DAZB complaining that you're diverting the topic of the thread.

Oh, sorry, he only complains if I do it.

 

[Roy Bloom]

The way I see it is . . . . Yes, there is an imbalance in society depending on your ethnicity, but I'd argue whether the blame for that can be put down to slavery.

It's also the left-over perpetuating racism that was born out of slavery. Racism that was invented to justify and excuse slavery.

It is a complex problem & complex problems do not have simple solutions.

Undoubtedly.
But we shouldn't allow history to be twisted and turned to suit the beneficiaries.
Nor should we re-write history. But we must be truthful about it.

The idea of monetary reparations makes no sense to me whatsoever & it only generates more questions than it has answers for.

It’s not just about payment. It is about engaging in good faith with the descendants of enslaved people and addressing inequalities – to make a better future possible

More than money: the logic of slavery reparations | Olivette Otele

It’s not just about payment. It is about engaging in good faith with the descendants of enslaved people and addressing inequalities – to make a better future possible

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dork Lard]

It's also the left-over perpetuating racism that was born out of slavery. Racism that was invented to justify and excuse slavery.


Undoubtedly.
But we shouldn't allow history to be twisted and turned to suit the beneficiaries.
Nor should we re-write history. But we must be truthful about it.

More than money: the logic of slavery reparations | Olivette Otele

It’s not just about payment. It is about engaging in good faith with the descendants of enslaved people and addressing inequalities – to make a better future possible

www.theguardian.com

We've come a long way towards racial equality don't you think. Can you think of 1 example where there is inequality of opportunity???

Do you think that this aproach to "reparations" might be causing a backlash that actually harms any future progress???

 

[Roy Bloom]

We've come a long way towards racial equality don't you think. Can you think of 1 example where there is inequality of opportunity???

Ask the Met. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmhaff/139/13911.htm
Ask Universities. https://www.theguardian.com/educati...s-perpetuate-institutional-racism-report-says
Ask the UN https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...n-experts-condemn-reprehensible-racism-report

United Kingdom: UN experts condemn “reprehensible” racism report
GENEVA (19 April 2021) – A group of UN human rights experts today strongly rejected a UK government-backed report into racism and ethnic disparities in the country, saying the review further distorted and falsified historic facts, and could even fuel racism, racial discrimination and negative racial stereotypes.

United Kingdom: UN experts condemn “reprehensible” racism report

GENEVA (19 April 2021) – A group of UN human rights experts today strongly rejected a UK government-backed report into racism and ethnic disparities in the country, saying the review further distorted and falsified historic facts, and could even fuel racism, racial discrimination and negative...

www.ohchr.org

Rights experts condemn UK racism report attempting to ‘normalize white supremacy’​

Rights experts condemn UK racism report attempting to ‘normalize white supremacy’

UN independent human rights experts on Monday denounced a government-backed report into racism in the United Kingdom, saying that it further distorted and falsified historical facts, and could even fuel racism and racial discrimination.

news.un.org

Do you think that this aproach to "reparations" might be causing a backlash that actually harms any future progress???

It's not just about the money.
The acknowledgement of the harm caused goes a long way in accepting and dealing with the inequalities.

 

[Brigadier]

It's not just about the money.
The acknowledgement of the harm caused goes a long way in accepting and dealing with the inequalities

It would be interesting to see how long "a long way" really was, if reparations was limited to "sorry; let's make it better from now on".

 

[johnny2007]

It would be interesting to see how long "a long way" really was, if reparations was limited to "sorry; let's make it better from now on".

That wouldn't be any good, would it?
They want hard cash and nothing else.
We now live in a society where there's surely one point of pure equality: everyone wants to milk money from everyone using any excuse, regardless of colour, ethnic background, religion, social class, sex, sexual orientation, etc, etc.

 

[algas]

As above been there and seen it in action in Africa

 

[Dork Lard]

It's not just about the money.
The acknowledgement of the harm caused goes a long way in accepting and dealing with the inequalities.

Are you aware that you are a marxist revolutionary???

Most aren't, the political conviction being very rare.

 

[Dork Lard]

Wouldn't it be incredibly racist . . . If we singled out a particular ethnicity & gave them favourable treatment?

 

[Roy Bloom]

It would be interesting to see how long "a long way" really was, if reparations was limited to "sorry; let's make it better from now on".

That wouldn't be any good, would it?
They want hard cash and nothing else.
We now live in a society where there's surely one point of pure equality: everyone wants to milk money from everyone using any excuse, regardless of colour, ethnic background, religion, social class, sex, sexual orientation, etc, etc.

As above been there and seen it in action in Africa

It's not just about the money.
Just like any other action of recompense or financial penalty, it's not just about the money.
But the money does signify a genuine desire for understanding, and atonement.
Empty apologies are easy, and may not be sincere, or a simple "get out of jail for free" card.

European countries apologising for their colonial past and historical role in the slave trade is "an important first step" but more much is needed to heal the wounds of the past, an expert told Euronews....
"For an apology to really go as far as it should, it really requires a recognition that crimes have been committed during the colonial era and a true commitment also to repair these wrongs," she said.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/...ologised-for-their-colonial-past-is-it-enough

As no-one can be bothered to read the links that I provided, about where the money goes, not do their own research, (which kind of mirrors the sincerity of empty apologies), I'll post up a couple of examples.
First of all the money does not go to individuals, it tries to enrich the life of everyone.

Glasgow University to pay £20m in slave trade reparations​

Glasgow University is to pay £20m in reparations to atone for its historical links to the transatlantic slave trade in what the University of West Indies has described as a “bold, historic” move.
It signed an agreement with the University of the West Indies to fund a joint centre for development research, at a ceremony in Glasgow on Friday morning.

Glasgow University to pay £20m in slave trade reparations

Institution believed to be first British university to set up restorative justice scheme

www.theguardian.com

Last month, the Trevelyan family agreed to donate more than £100,000 to education projects on the tiny Caribbean island as compensation for its involvement in slavery.
Members of the Trevelyan family then attended a parliamentary debate about reparations led by Mr Lewis.
"Then we figured out we had this link," Ms Trevelyan said. "Grenada is a small island - about the size of the Isle of Wight."
This means, she was told, that "probably literally everyone on Grenada is descended at some point from someone who was owned by one of your ancestors".

Laura Trevelyan: My slavery link to MP shows reality of reparations

Ex-BBC journalist Laura Trevelyan says it's possible her family owned Clive Lewis's ancestors.

www.bbc.com