The British Empire Good or Bad........

[fillyboy]

Funnily enough the origin of 'woke' comes from the US, and refers to a 'perceived awareness of issues that concern social justice and racial justice'.

I thought it meant left wing nobgobbler.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

How surprising!
Someone starts a thread suggesting that British Empire was all for the good. But as soon as anyone suggests an alternative opinion, along come those that want to swiftly divert the discussion elsewhere. It suggests that they refuse to face up to the atrocities committed by the British Empire.

No-one is suggesting that it was only the British Empire committing atrocities, but the the thread was started to suggest that there were none committed by the British Empire, which if course is totally fallacious. And as soon as I present a few examples, along come the usual culprits to swiftly apply their whataboutery.

If you want to sing the praises of an empire, any empire, be prepared for the awful truth, the truth that some want, and go to extraordinary lengths, to avoid.

Some empires are fully aware of their inglorious past, indeed, the German (Empire) is totally committed to preventing such re-occurrences, as are the Japanese.
The British Empire appears to be determined in air-brushing out of their history, their atrocious behaviour towards other nations and their people, as perfectly illustrated in this thread.
If you ignore your history, you're bound to repeat the same mistakes.

 

[durhamplumber]

The British Empire appears to be determined in air-brushing out of their history

How do you work that out?

 

[durhamplumber]

How




The British Empire appears to be determined in air-brushing out of their history, as perfectly illustrated in this thread.
If you ignore your history, you're bound to repeat the same mistakes.

One or two comments on here is hardly "The Briitish Empire" erasing the past Robbo ..calm yourself with your perfect morals past present and future..I am sure the British Empire accounted for many positives around the globe and if History is going to be churned over, it is only right that as much emphasis is placed on good as well as bad...Bit like praising naughty little Jonny in the classroom sometimes.

 

[durhamplumber]

How surprising!

Not surprising at all to me..Your anti UK bias is huge...First opportunity you list alleged atrocities..How about Googling and pasting the Good the B.E brought for the World?...How would that be for a balanced view!?Probably best you avoid teaching kids social history!

 

[^woody^]

The empire was good for all those part of it, and bad for everyone when it declined

Diary date 24th May -Empire Day - AKA Commonwealth Day

" to remind children that they formed part of the British Empire, and that they might think with others in lands across the sea, what it meant to be sons and daughters of such a glorious Empire. The strength of the Empire depended upon them, and they must never forget it.”

Looks like they forgot it.

Or as Bob Hoskins put it to the yanks in The Long Good Friday
"What I'm looking for is someone who can contribute to what England has given to the world. Culture, sophistication, genius... a little bit more than an hotdog, know what I mean?"

 

[Trazor]

How surprising!
Someone starts a thread suggesting that British Empire was all for the good. But as soon as anyone suggests an alternative opinion, along come those that want to swiftly divert the discussion elsewhere. It suggests that they refuse to face up to the atrocities committed by the British Empire.

No-one is suggesting that it was only the British Empire committing atrocities, but the the thread was started to suggest that there were none committed by the British Empire, which if course is totally fallacious. And as soon as I present a few examples, along come the usual culprits to swiftly apply their whataboutery.

If you want to sing the praises of an empire, any empire, be prepared for the awful truth, the truth that some want, and go to extraordinary lengths, to avoid.

Some empires are fully aware of their inglorious past, indeed, the German (Empire) is totally committed to preventing such re-occurrences, as are the Japanese.
The British Empire appears to be determined in air-brushing out of their history, their atrocious behaviour towards other nations and their people, as perfectly illustrated in this thread.
If you ignore your history, you're bound to repeat the same mistakes.

Bobby seems to think that DIYnot threads, always stay on the rails...............

 

[JP_]

Same can be said for most things.
Roman invasion, good or bad? What did the Romans do for us!?!
Vikings, bad? Danes, good?

All swings and roundabouts.

As a country, we have done a lot of bad stuff though, there isn't much saintly or noble about they way we conducted ourselves overseas during the days of empire - it's not like the empire was given to us by charitable countries eager to be conquered.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I think it's vitally important to remember what your country has done historically, good and bad, 'never forget' if you want to put it that way. However, in equal measure, we must strive to move on in a manner that's inclusive for all. One thing I don't like is the airbrushing of history. Was watching a tv report a few weeks back about a country in Europe, sorry can't remember what one. They're in the process of literally trying to airbrush out one or two of their residents from decades ago that helped the Nazi's during WW2. They see it as a barrier to attracting inward trade. On the one hand you can see their logic from an economic perspective, on the other it can be a slippery slope to rewriting your country's history by taking out all the bad stuff.

Something else that amuses me is individuals are multi-faceted and complex. So if we take someone like Churchill, it's possible he held personal views that many would find distasteful today. Note I'm not saying he did, just using him as an example. However you need to look at what people do on the round, what they achieve overall and has it been a positive or negative in the long run.

The British Empire did some terrible things, sometimes intentionally sometimes with the best of intent. However as some have touched on, much of what we know today has been built out of one group/country fighting and winning over another group/country to assert their dominance. Unfortunately the human race hasn't learnt its lesson and some are still doing this in 2021. As I say, we'll be the masters of our own downfall.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Bobby seems to think that DIYnot threads, always stay on the rails.

Of course not. More fool you for thinking that was what I meant.

What I said, and I said it very clearly for those that read it and properly understood it, and I'll repeat it now for those didn't:

When someone starts a thread to sing about the righteousness of the British Empire,(or any empire), the thread ticks along in the same direction. But as soon as anyone brings into focus the atrocities committed by the British Empire some of the usual culprits suddenly want to excuse, deny or hide the atrocities of the British Empire by loads of whataboutery. The thread was about the British Empire. Deflection and diversion only started when atrocities were mentioned.
It's just like they want to excuse, deny or hide the atrocities committed by the British Empire, by diverting attention to other nations.
Imagine a child sex offender up before the judge, and the judge asks the offender, what do you have to say for yourself. So the offender claims his offence was not really an offence because others have also committed the same offence. That is the mentality of the usual culprits.

If people want to talk about the British Empire, that's fine. We'll talk about the British Empire, warts and all. But let's not kid ourselves that the atrocities committed by the British are OK or excusable, because other nations also committed atrocities.

The education in schools is just as culpable. i suspect every child is taught about the 6,000,000 Jews killed by the Nazis. How many are taught about the 12,000,000 Indians starved to death by Churchill?
The British history, in films, books, comics, and media, is all about Britain winning the war. Rarely is there any mention about the Commonwealth countries, nor the Europeans, soldiers and civilians (other than the Jews), killed in the war. And never are the British atrocities committed, in pursuit of the war, mentioned.

The same still applies to modern day warfare, and any mention of war crimes, committed by British, is dismissed as vexatious. Yet those same people will move heaven and earth to bring charges against foreign soldiers.

 

[Trazor]

Of course not. More fool you for thinking that was what I meant.

More fool you, for not having the grasp, that that, is what it conveyed.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

More fool you, for not having the grasp, that that, is what it conveyed.

I know what it conveyed, I wrote it.
If you misconstrue what someone has wrote, I suggest the fault lies with your misinterpretation.
Now couple that with your motive for misconstruing something that I wrote, and hey presto, there's your problem.

 

[^woody^]

The British Empire did some terrible things

In what context? That of the 18/19th centuries or that of the woke snowflake era?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

In what context? That of the 18/19th centuries or that of the woke snowflake era?

It depends on whether you consider the forced repatriation of millions of Africans to USA, and other places, as OK in the woke snowflake era.
Or the starvation of 12,000,000 Indians as OK.
Or the slaughter of Africans in concentration camps as OK.
Or the rape and slaughter of Boers in similar camps as OK.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

In what context? That of the 18/19th centuries or that of the woke snowflake era?

In a historical context.