Trump Re Ukraine

[gas112]

Ukraine has publicly asked to be supplied with cluster munitions. Several US lawmakers have called for the Unite States, which is not a party to the Convention on Cluster Munitions, to transfer stockpiled cluster munitions to the Ukrainian government. Under US arms export rules, the United States can only export cluster munitions that “after arming do not result in more than one percent unexploded ordnance across the range of intended operational environments.” This provision can be waived by the US president in exceptional circumstances to allow for transfers of cluster munitions with higher failure rates.

The cluster munitions that the United States is considering sending to Ukraine are more than 20 years old, scatter over a wide area, and have a notoriously high failure rate, meaning they could remain deadly for years. Their use in US combat operations in 1991 and 2003 in Iraq resulted in casualties among civilians and US military personnel.

For the transfer, Ukraine would have to agree that the cluster munitions “will only be used against clearly defined military targets and will not be used where civilians are known to be present or in areas normally inhabited by civilians.”

,
,
,. So US either supplied illegally high failure rate bombs or Biden knowing they where high failure rate overruled the export law

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I don't give a toss if he went on the telly or not. Fact is, he was wealthy and an established businessman before that. I had heard of him long before The Apprentice.

Heard of him, or his dad ?

 

[noseall]

Trump was an established wealthy businessman. Zelensky was an entertainer funded by a TV channel.

I can think of no human on the planet less fit to serve than Trump.
He was an idiot and a poorly rated President the first time around, and this term is looking no different.

 

[Brigadier]

Ukraine has publicly asked to be supplied with cluster munitions. Several US lawmakers have called for the Unite States, which is not a party to the Convention on Cluster Munitions, to transfer stockpiled cluster munitions to the Ukrainian government. Under US arms export rules, the United States can only export cluster munitions that “after arming do not result in more than one percent unexploded ordnance across the range of intended operational environments.” This provision can be waived by the US president in exceptional circumstances to allow for transfers of cluster munitions with higher failure rates.

The cluster munitions that the United States is considering sending to Ukraine are more than 20 years old, scatter over a wide area, and have a notoriously high failure rate, meaning they could remain deadly for years. Their use in US combat operations in 1991 and 2003 in Iraq resulted in casualties among civilians and US military personnel.

For the transfer, Ukraine would have to agree that the cluster munitions “will only be used against clearly defined military targets and will not be used where civilians are known to be present or in areas normally inhabited by civilians.”

,
,
,. So US either supplied illegally high failure rate bombs or Biden knowing they where high failure rate overruled the export law

"Yeh, I was wrong" would have been much easier to type (if not for you to swallow).

 

[Munroast]

Are you willing to give up our deterrent?

are we willing to be a little pathetic pawn pushed around by a big bully - we need to stand up to him - he might be bigger and tougher and we might get a good hiding, but he needs a right good hard smack in the mouth - tell him to go and bully someone else

 

[crystal ball]

are we willing to be a little pathetic pawn pushed around by a big bully - we need to stand up to him - he might be bigger and tougher and we might get a good hiding, but he needs a right good hard smack in the mouth - tell him to go and bully someone else

Not what I asked, are you willing to give up our deterrent?

 

[Notch7]

you do know that cluster bombs are illegal regardless who you use them on

There is an important distinction between “pro Russian Ukrainians” and “pro Russian fighting rebels”

 

[Notch7]

Not what I asked, are you willing to give up our deterrent?

If USA stop funding Ukraine then we have no deterrent

 

[gas112]

There is an important distinction between “pro Russian Ukrainians” and “pro Russian fighting rebels”

(Kyiv, July 6, 2023) – Ukrainian forces have used cluster munitions that caused numerous deaths and serious injuries to civilians, Human Rights Watch said today. Russian forces have extensively used cluster munitions in Ukraine, killing many civilians and causing other serious civilian harm.

New Human Rights Watch research found that Ukrainian cluster munition rocket attacks on Russian-controlled areas in and around the city of Izium in eastern Ukraine during 2022 caused many casualties among Ukrainian civilians. Both countries should stop using these inherently indiscriminate weapons, and no country should supply cluster munitions because of their foreseeable danger to civilians.

 

[Munroast]

Not what I asked, are you willing to give up our deterrent?

If he pulls the plug or hides the codes, or however it works then so be it - I wouldn't be dancing to his tune

so a question for you - are you happy to dance to his tune?

 

[jj4091]

5 . Many people in Ukraine are pro Russia and want to be back in their fold. There has been fighting going on for over a decade in the Donbas region, Ukrainians v Ukrainians.

you are quite wrong there, the only people who are of that frame of mind are the ones who live along the border. I was talking to a few Ukrainian refugees recentlty who told me the majority, especially the men but the women who have stayed because they did not have families to think about, would fight to their last breath to defend their indepenance. They don't want to liive in a country where a few dictate how the majority should live. They want to have a democracy .Those that support the Russians should move across the border according to them.

 

[Notch7]

(Kyiv, July 6, 2023) – Ukrainian forces have used cluster munitions that caused numerous deaths and serious injuries to civilians, Human Rights Watch said today. Russian forces have extensively used cluster munitions in Ukraine, killing many civilians and causing other serious civilian harm.

New Human Rights Watch research found that Ukrainian cluster munition rocket attacks on Russian-controlled areas in and around the city of Izium in eastern Ukraine during 2022 caused many casualties among Ukrainian civilians. Both countries should stop using these inherently indiscriminate weapons, and no country should supply cluster munitions because of their foreseeable danger to civilians.

Now you are conflating different events

Justin Passing said: “pro Russian areas”

Your quote is referring to “Russian controlled areas”


As your report says: “Russian forces extensively used cluster munitions”…..Ukraine was fighting for its existence and was using the weaponry it had available.

 

[crystal ball]

If he pulls the plug or hides the codes, or however it works then so be it - I wouldn't be dancing to his tune

so a question for you - are you happy to dance to his tune?

Nothing is that simple, the UK has had a deterrent at sea since 1969, co operation with the US has been a vital component, and still is with the current construction of the Dreadnought class SSBNs & the AUKUS project with Australia. Tens of thousands of UK jobs are dependent on these projects. Do you still want to sever all links?

 

[denso13]

(Kyiv, July 6, 2023) – Ukrainian forces have used cluster munitions that caused numerous deaths and serious injuries to civilians, Human Rights Watch said today. Russian forces have extensively used cluster munitions in Ukraine, killing many civilians and causing other serious civilian harm.

New Human Rights Watch research found that Ukrainian cluster munition rocket attacks on Russian-controlled areas in and around the city of Izium in eastern Ukraine during 2022 caused many casualties among Ukrainian civilians. Both countries should stop using these inherently indiscriminate weapons, and no country should supply cluster munitions because of their foreseeable danger to civilians.

Still not illegal.

 

[Notch7]

you are quite wrong there, the only people who are of that frame of mind are the ones who live along the border. I was talking to a few Ukrainian refugees recentlty who told me the majority, especially the men but the women who have stayed because they did not have families to think about, would fight to their last breath to defend their indepenance. They don't want to liive in a country where a few dictate how the majority should live. They want to have a democracy .Those that support the Russians should move across the border according to them.

It’s hard to get definitive answers on this but what I can find online is that the people of Donbas just want a peaceful life without the fighting, they aren’t particularly supportive of the Ukraine govt, they would be happy to be independent, but the majority do not want to be part of Russia……which seems to be in line with what you’ve learnt from Ukrainian refugees.