Wealth.

[Homesafe]

Population has got nothing to do with poverty.
The Uk has the highest population in its history yet we are healthier and better fed than ever.

If you have 10 people sharing £100 they have a tenner each.

If you have 20 people sharing £100 they have a fiver each.

You are assuming that resources are limitless.

you are assuming that as the population grows the amount of resources available remains the same, China and India have rising populations yet their standard of living is now higher than 100 years ago when their population would have been a lot smaller.
Obviously the worlds resources are finite and if the worlds population continues to grow there will come a point where population will outstrip available
resources
but that point is a long way off.

We'll be long dead and the world will have been destroyed by then, But then some say I'm just an eternal optimist

 

[joe-90]

Population has got nothing to do with poverty.
The Uk has the highest population in its history yet we are healthier and better fed than ever.

If you have 10 people sharing £100 they have a tenner each.

If you have 20 people sharing £100 they have a fiver each.

You are assuming that resources are limitless.

you are assuming that as the population grows the amount of resources available remains the same, China and India have rising populations yet their standard of living is now higher than 100 years ago when their population would have been a lot smaller.
Obviously the worlds resources are finite and if the worlds population continues to grow there will come a point where population will outstrip available
resources
but that point is a long way off.

Not if that resource is oil it isn't. They say that in 20 years time China alone will use the equivalent of all the oil used by the world today,

 

[skitzee2k]

No, its only numbers on a screen as long as you want intangible goods, like insurance, for it.As soon as you want material goods, you have to turn those numbers into raw materials to produce the goods. So the maximum amount you have to play with is whats called the M3 money supply - the sum of the GDP + all the stocks and shares and savings and Credit of the country. if i own the iron ore, im not going to give it away free. what are you going to give me for my iron ore - and thats where you come unstuck, because in order to persuade me to give it away, we have to agree its value.

.

But if EVERYONE owned the iron ore.. You are imagining a world without money where things are still owned. This will obviously fail.

Silver is not 'running out', silver is silver. There is as much now as there has always been.

You can only put a monetary value on something if there is a scarcity of that material. You can't charge someone for sunlight...or air. Therefore, if we dropped the materialist nature, we wouldn't need money.

If there is enough food for everyone. If there is sufficient means for transport for everyone, if there was enough energy for everyone, if everyone had a nice home...would use would there be for money?

 

[Lincsbodger]

No, its only numbers on a screen as long as you want intangible goods, like insurance, for it.As soon as you want material goods, you have to turn those numbers into raw materials to produce the goods. So the maximum amount you have to play with is whats called the M3 money supply - the sum of the GDP + all the stocks and shares and savings and Credit of the country. if i own the iron ore, im not going to give it away free. what are you going to give me for my iron ore - and thats where you come unstuck, because in order to persuade me to give it away, we have to agree its value.

.

But if EVERYONE owned the iron ore.. You are imagining a world without money where things are still owned. This will obviously fail.

Silver is not 'running out', silver is silver. There is as much now as there has always been.

You can only put a monetary value on something if there is a scarcity of that material. You can't charge someone for sunlight...or air. Therefore, if we dropped the materialist nature, we wouldn't need money.

If there is enough food for everyone. If there is sufficient means for transport for everyone, if there was enough energy for everyone, if everyone had a nice home...would use would there be for money?

1.Silver demand is currently at a higher level than silver supply from mining or scrap sources and has been for the last 12 years. Several official silver organizations have put this needed amount (deficit) at over 100 million ounces per year.

2.This excess demand or "silver deficit" is being met by already existing above ground inventories that are rapidly being expended. "Yesterday's Silver".

3.This above ground silver supply used to meet the ongoing deficit is largely being uneconomically dumped onto the market, meaning it is either changing hands or being expended for less than the average cost of silver production.

4.At some point this current above-ground silver supply will be inadequate and silver will then be set free as a function of today's (tomorrow's) supply/demand fundamentals.

CURRENT KNOWN RESERVES & RESOURCES

A large part of the future silver equation becomes "How much underground silver remains?" Are we running out of silver?

There has been a recent survey put out through the U.S. Geological Survey, "Mineral Commodity Summaries 2001".

They state that there were 17,900 tonnes of silver produced in year 2000. Second, they state there are 280,000 tonnes of "Recoverable Reserves" as of year 2000. Third, they portray a "Reserve Base" of 420,000 tonnes as of year 2000.

so, economically mineable silver reserve of approximately 9 billion (as previously listed) troy ounces or slightly more than 10 years of supply available to be mined at current prices, but only if you project silver to stay at current prices! You cannot project $35-$50 silver and still hang on to these same "Reserve" numbers!

So, the amount of silver is finite, and in 10 years if no more reserves are found, the price will start to rocket as demand massively outstrips supply, just like it has currently done with gold.

The same argument applies to almost all resources. The resources of the planet are finite and limited, and we are in some cases stripping them out, especially the non -replaceable consumables like oil.

Marine crisis:
North Atlantic cod stocks have collapsed from an estimated 264,000 tonnes in 1970 to under 60,000 in 1995.

Pollution:
The United States places the greatest pressure on the environment, with its carbon dioxide emissions and over-consumption. It takes 12.2 hectares of land to support each American citizen and 6.29 for each Briton, while the figure for Burundi is just half a hectare.

Shrinking Forests:
Between 1970 and 2002 forest cover has dwindled by 12 per cent. Thats more timber than we used in WW1 globally.

 

[lifesagasman]

So if silverfish could plant trees they'd rule the world?

 

[empip]

Think about it !!

-0-

 

[skitzee2k]

1.Silver demand is currently at a higher level than silver supply from mining or scrap sources and has been for the last 12 years. Several official silver organizations have put this needed amount (deficit) at over 100 million ounces per year.

2.This excess demand or "silver deficit" is being met by already existing above ground inventories that are rapidly being expended. "Yesterday's Silver".

3.This above ground silver supply used to meet the ongoing deficit is largely being uneconomically dumped onto the market, meaning it is either changing hands or being expended for less than the average cost of silver production.

4.At some point this current above-ground silver supply will be inadequate and silver will then be set free as a function of today's (tomorrow's) supply/demand fundamentals.

CURRENT KNOWN RESERVES & RESOURCES

A large part of the future silver equation becomes "How much underground silver remains?" Are we running out of silver?

There has been a recent survey put out through the U.S. Geological Survey, "Mineral Commodity Summaries 2001".

They state that there were 17,900 tonnes of silver produced in year 2000. Second, they state there are 280,000 tonnes of "Recoverable Reserves" as of year 2000. Third, they portray a "Reserve Base" of 420,000 tonnes as of year 2000.

so, economically mineable silver reserve of approximately 9 billion (as previously listed) troy ounces or slightly more than 10 years of supply available to be mined at current prices, but only if you project silver to stay at current prices! You cannot project $35-$50 silver and still hang on to these same "Reserve" numbers!

So, the amount of silver is finite, and in 10 years if no more reserves are found, the price will start to rocket as demand massively outstrips supply, just like it has currently done with gold.

The same argument applies to almost all resources. The resources of the planet are finite and limited, and we are in some cases stripping them out, especially the non -replaceable consumables like oil.

Marine crisis:
North Atlantic cod stocks have collapsed from an estimated 264,000 tonnes in 1970 to under 60,000 in 1995.

Pollution:
The United States places the greatest pressure on the environment, with its carbon dioxide emissions and over-consumption. It takes 12.2 hectares of land to support each American citizen and 6.29 for each Briton, while the figure for Burundi is just half a hectare.

Shrinking Forests:
Between 1970 and 2002 forest cover has dwindled by 12 per cent. Thats more timber than we used in WW1 globally.

...but we don't need silver, we can replace oil with bio oil and we can have clean energy....
What resource do we NEED that we are limited by?

 

[Lincsbodger]

1.Silver demand is currently at a higher level than silver supply from mining or scrap sources and has been for the last 12 years. Several official silver organizations have put this needed amount (deficit) at over 100 million ounces per year.

2.This excess demand or "silver deficit" is being met by already existing above ground inventories that are rapidly being expended. "Yesterday's Silver".

3.This above ground silver supply used to meet the ongoing deficit is largely being uneconomically dumped onto the market, meaning it is either changing hands or being expended for less than the average cost of silver production.

4.At some point this current above-ground silver supply will be inadequate and silver will then be set free as a function of today's (tomorrow's) supply/demand fundamentals.

CURRENT KNOWN RESERVES & RESOURCES

A large part of the future silver equation becomes "How much underground silver remains?" Are we running out of silver?

There has been a recent survey put out through the U.S. Geological Survey, "Mineral Commodity Summaries 2001".

They state that there were 17,900 tonnes of silver produced in year 2000. Second, they state there are 280,000 tonnes of "Recoverable Reserves" as of year 2000. Third, they portray a "Reserve Base" of 420,000 tonnes as of year 2000.

so, economically mineable silver reserve of approximately 9 billion (as previously listed) troy ounces or slightly more than 10 years of supply available to be mined at current prices, but only if you project silver to stay at current prices! You cannot project $35-$50 silver and still hang on to these same "Reserve" numbers!

So, the amount of silver is finite, and in 10 years if no more reserves are found, the price will start to rocket as demand massively outstrips supply, just like it has currently done with gold.

The same argument applies to almost all resources. The resources of the planet are finite and limited, and we are in some cases stripping them out, especially the non -replaceable consumables like oil.

Marine crisis:
North Atlantic cod stocks have collapsed from an estimated 264,000 tonnes in 1970 to under 60,000 in 1995.

Pollution:
The United States places the greatest pressure on the environment, with its carbon dioxide emissions and over-consumption. It takes 12.2 hectares of land to support each American citizen and 6.29 for each Briton, while the figure for Burundi is just half a hectare.

Shrinking Forests:
Between 1970 and 2002 forest cover has dwindled by 12 per cent. Thats more timber than we used in WW1 globally.

...but we don't need silver, we can replace oil with bio oil and we can have clean energy....
What resource do we NEED that we are limited by?

we do need silver. Its used in:

Dentistry
Photography
Electronics
Jewelry
Silver plating
Currency
Mirrors
Optics
Medicine

Silver's catalytic properties make it ideal for use as a catalyst in oxidation reactions, for example, the production of formaldehyde from methanol and air by means of silver screens or crystallites containing a minimum 99.95 weight-percent silver. Silver (upon some suitable support) is probably the only catalyst available today to convert ethylene to ethylene oxide (later hydrolyzed to ethylene glycol, used for making polyesters)— an important industrial reaction. Because silver readily absorbs free neutrons, it is commonly used to make control rods that regulate the fission chain reaction in pressurized water nuclear reactors, generally in the form of an alloy containing 80% silver, 15% indium, and 5% cadmium. Silver is used to make solder and brazing alloys, and as a thin layer on bearing surfaces can provide a significant increase in galling resistance and reduce wear under heavy load, particularly against steel.

Oh, and silver, gold an platinum are used to make parts in thermonuclear bombs, as they are noble metals and dont contaminate the explosion.

Everything has a use, and most things have uses you havent even imagined.

 

[skitzee2k]

......there are alternatives for all of that, i didn't asked what it was USED for I asked for what it was NEEDED for, central to a civilised way of life. I don't think you will find any....and if you do, I would imagine we have enough for the essentials thousands of times over.

 

[joe-90]

...but we don't need silver, we can replace oil with bio oil and we can have clean energy....
What resource do we NEED that we are limited by?

Bio oil is way too expensive and there isn't anywhere to grow the stuff anyway.

 

[oompah]

BP must be pretty wealthy or think there is to much oil reserves, just look at the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[Lincsbodger]

......there are alternatives for all of that, i didn't asked what it was USED for I asked for what it was NEEDED for, central to a civilised way of life. I don't think you will find any....and if you do, I would imagine we have enough for the essentials thousands of times over.

yea, your just playing with words. If its used for something then its needed for it. Did you not read the line "Silver (upon some suitable support) is probably the only catalyst available today to convert ethylene to ethylene oxide (later hydrolyzed to ethylene glycol, used for making polyesters)— an important industrial reaction."

Your civilised way of life requires industrial processes, all of which use chemicals and raw materials which, were there a cheaper alternative, we would have used way before now.

Silver can be dispensed with, as long as you dont want fillings in your teeth, photographs, you dont require any type electronics that has silver contacts (ie most electronics in your home), nothing silver plated , no silver coins, no mirrors, or good quality lenses, and no silver based medicines or dressing. Oh and ofc no polyesters, which have another 101 uses from clothing to plastics to coatings.

Your being absurd now..........

 

[skitzee2k]

Your civilised way of life requires industrial processes, all of which use chemicals and raw materials which, were there a cheaper alternative, we would have used way before now.

Wouldn't you say everlasting light bulbs were cheaper keep making more and more??

What about renewable energy??
That is cheaper and better than nonrenewable...but people like oil etc because it is NOT surplus and therefore they can charge $£ for it.

..We can send people to the moon 50 years ago and you don't think we can find a replacement for silver? We can make elements in a lab, but we are unable to synthesise ones that exist?? Get real. There is just more MONEY in current technology because they can keep a strangle hold on demand. Do you know how many patents BP and the like etc hold for revolutionary renewable energy systems? it is a lot...and they have NO inclination to use them.

 

[Lincsbodger]

Your civilised way of life requires industrial processes, all of which use chemicals and raw materials which, were there a cheaper alternative, we would have used way before now.

Wouldn't you say everlasting light bulbs were cheaper keep making more and more??

What about renewable energy??
That is cheaper and better than nonrenewable...but people like oil etc because it is NOT surplus and therefore they can charge $£ for it.

..We can send people to the moon 50 years ago and you don't think we can find a replacement for silver? We can make elements in a lab, but we are unable to synthesise ones that exist?? Get real. There is just more MONEY in current technology because they can keep a strangle hold on demand. Do you know how many patents BP and the like etc hold for revolutionary renewable energy systems? it is a lot...and they have NO inclination to use them.

1. no one has ever invented an everlasting light bulb, and its not in the interests of many pople to do so. Once everyone has all the everlasting light bulbs they will ever need, no more need be made, putting people out of work and closing companies, and shareholders would be in uproar.

2. The only elements weve been able to create are the transuranic ones, all radioactive and in small amounts. no one has ever converted lead to gold or made silver out of something worthless. Thats been the goal of Alchemists since the 14th century. Its possible to make metals from there oxides and salts, with the use of vast amounts of energy, but it isnt realistic or viable to do it large scale.

3. OFC they wont, if you could invent a way to run a car on water, BP would have you killed, its big business, and you'd be a big threat to them. Again, theres no such thing as free energy, or a free lunch. Everything you do that uses or creates any amount of energy or work increases the entropy of the universe. Build enough wave and tidal generators and you'll eventually start affecting the angular momentum and rotational speed of the planet. Build enough wind farm and you'll start affecting wind patterns and rain patterns.

4. Its not a case of finding a replacement for silver, its a case of finding an ECONOMIC replacement that will do what it does. Silver isnt the only strategic resource. There vast numbers of chemicals and raw materials and elements that are used in industry. I repeat, if there were a cheaper alternative, someone would already be using it............

 

[skitzee2k]

AHHH! Linc, mate, honestly....are you doing this as a joke?? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/specials/sheffield_99/449368.stm

I KNOW it wouldn't please shareholders...but shareholders are only needed when we have MONEY...which I am saying we don't need. Your reasoning is very circular.


Imagine there is no such thing as money, and we have everlasting technology (almost zero work needed)...we wouldn't need money.