EV are they worth it?

[Avocet]

I love the smell of Diesel.

And I agree with you about unburnt pipe baccy. My Dad used to smoke Clan.

And freshly ground coffee (before adding water). But I don't like or drink it.

Same here! Love the smell of fresh coffee, but hate the taste!

 

[Avocet]

Oh I remember it well, Holland House was the other one. Had mine confiscated by the Police, they thought it was flax or something, got it back, OK in a pipe, but no good for role your own.

I hate the smell of 28 sec gas oil, but no real option, it heats the house.

They add the smell to gas for safety, maybe we should add noise to electric cars, but the buses in Chester in the 80's had a buzzer, but it did not work, no one associated the sound with a vehicle. The electric buses did not last long.

All EVs thee days are required to make a synthetic noise. Search for "AVAS requirements".

The Wrexham bypass has a speed restriction to improve air quality, there is no exemption for EV's.

Now there's something that would incentivise the uptake of EVs like nothing else! Vehicle-specific speed limits. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Temporary speed limits for ICEs to reduce NOx emissions on certain days with poor air quality, should not apply to EVs. Can you imagine Mr. Arsey Plutocrat seething with rage in his Range Rover Sport, having to do 50, while Mrs Housewife nips past him at 70 in her little Nissan Leaf?

 

[Avocet]

Is this helpful?

Ah... I saw that in the paper... Cherry-picked figures to stack the case as much as they dared, and even then, only considering an unrealistic special case. I do more public charging than most, because of all the long runs I do, and I still save about £100 a month compared to my last diesel - even though I now have three times as much power!

 

[Avocet]

No, it's just more drivel from the usual suspects.

Probably compares the cheapest petrol available with the most expensive motorway EV charging that can be found, and assumes that everyone drives to that motorway charger for 100% of their charging.

Pretty much, except it goes further than that. It assumes (as you rightly guessed) that all EVs are only ever charged from the MOST expensive rapid chargers in the country (not even the "average" rapid charger price), but it also assumes a pretty "thirsty" EV in the calculations (3.3 miles per kWh), and then compares it to an "average" diesel that wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding by comparison...

If they'd run the same article about ICEs, it would be saying how rubbish an Aston Martin was, because you *had* to use super unleaded, and you *had* to buy it from the motorway services every time, and then they'd "prove" it by comparing it to a Fiat 500 run on supermarket E10...

They're just making fools of themselves.

 

[Avocet]

Oh ok - like for like...

So how well is your home petrol fuelling at cheap rate working for you?

Gosh! That would be quite a fire risk - if all ICE drivers refueled at home...

 

[Avocet]

A lot less today than when Bedford CF was made, they used lead acid. And my EV (e-bike) I often leave bike in back of car and just take battery to recharge it. So it depends on size of EV.

This is the point, we don't tend to buy cans of Prats petrol at the chemist any more, the re-fuelling practices have changed over the years, we would have a fuel bowser going around plant on site re-fuelling, and JCB have produced hydrogen powered plant due to this, as one can't really drive the D8 to an electric power point, only way you could re-fuel with electric would be battery swap, or a generator the latter kind of defeats whole idea of electric.

Nio (Chinese manufacturer) do vehicles where you just swap the whole battery. Drive to the swap station, and the machinery inside just pulls a charged battery out of the rack, drops the one out of your car, and swaps the two. Takes about 5 minutes. Personally, I'm not interested and I don't think the idea will "fly" globally. Too expensive and too limiting. However bad people think the current charging infrastructure is, there's no way they'd be able to build a network of brand-specific battery swap stations that could cover the country adequately.

(Although I must admit, it would be quit funny to see Nutjob's reaction if they built one next to his house. Imagine a couple of dozen EV batteries right next door, charging 24/7...)

Even if the petrol engine was 50 cc and the generator was only used when you can't find a parking space with a charger, it would transform the electric to a useable form of transport, but I want to re-fuel either when doing some thing else, or fast maybe taking 5 minutes.

Actually, there would still be a small CO2 advantage, because the generator would run constantly at peak efficiency. People have done tests where they've put a litre of diesel into a generator and charged an EV unti the generator ran out of diesel, and then driven the car until it ran out of power. They've then put a litre of diesel in a similarly sized (though much less powerful) diesel car and driven it until it ran out. The EV gets slightly further. There are various "series hybrids" like the BMW i3 with its little "range extender" motorbike engine, that work exactly the way you describe. Primarily an EV, but (effectively) with a small generator in the boot.

I was almost tempted, but it's actually the worst of both worlds. I find that I stop for other reasons (toilet breaks, rests and food) enough to cover the time to charge an EV, that doing a long journey in an EV actually makes very little difference to arrival time, compared to an ICE.

Had enough with house, only doing washing when sun shines, watching battery level all the time, why are there no solar panels on car roofs?

Sorry, forgot this last bit. If you work out the area of a car roof (and bonnet, if you like!) and multiply that by the very best case energy that you'd be likely to get on a sunny day, it still wouldn't "wet the sides"! However, plenty of people with modest daily mileage and a decent home solar array on the roof of their house can do it. We have friends who have about 8kW of solar panels in a field and a 5kW wind turbine. They run their RenaultZoe entirely on that.

 

[securespark]

We are getting along fine with our EV, that replaced our much-loved 175K Honda FRV Diesel. Incidentally, its MoT was not renewed this year, but there's no failure on the system. Maybe it was pranged?

Anyway, the EV is great. We top up at home mostly, at 7.5p on Octopus. It works out dirt cheap compared to DERV. We have been to North Wales a few times and down to the Cotswolds, up to Lancs and Cumbria. No worries about charging. We have had a couple of issues with chargers not working, but that was because they were newly installed and not yet connected. If we need to charge en route, we stop for a drink or a bite. 30 mins later, we are topped up and ready for the off. But as we do the vast majority of charging at home, it's not a great worry. Range anxiety is not an issue. Worst case scenario we get 200 miles range, even with a heavy right foot. We don't faff about turning the aircon and radio off to try and save a bit of juice.

And the best bit?

We have done 10K+ so far and it hasn't caught fire once.

All the trollop you see on SM is scaremongering. I really don't know what these people are frightened of.

TBH, I'd take notice of them more if they actually got their arses into an EV and drove it for a week.

 

[Avocet]

We are getting along fine with our EV, that replaced our much-loved 175K Honda FRV Diesel. Incidentally, its MoT was not renewed this year, but there's no failure on the system. Maybe it was pranged?

Anyway, the EV is great. We top up at home mostly, at 7.5p on Octopus. It works out dirt cheap compared to DERV. We have been to North Wales a few times and down to the Cotswolds, up to Lancs and Cumbria. No worries about charging. We have had a couple of issues with chargers not working, but that was because they were newly installed and not yet connected. If we need to charge en route, we stop for a drink or a bite. 30 mins later, we are topped up and ready for the off. But as we do the vast majority of charging at home, it's not a great worry. Range anxiety is not an issue. Worst case scenario we get 200 miles range, even with a heavy right foot. We don't faff about turning the aircon and radio off to try and save a bit of juice.

And the best bit?

We have done 10K+ so far and it hasn't caught fire once.

All the trollop you see on SM is scaremongering. I really don't know what these people are frightened of.

TBH, I'd take notice of them more if they actually got their arses into an EV and drove it for a week.

Exactly.
2 years,
40,000 miles ,
0 fires,
0 car park collapses,
0 new batteries,
0 faults,
Hasn't even had its first service yet!

Disappointed that it still uses about the same amount of screenwash as my last ICE though, but I suppose you can't have everything...

 

[ericmark]

Gosh! That would be quite a fire risk - if all ICE drivers refueled at home...

But you have to, TVO is not available at refuelling stations. Not sure if still legal, I know you can't run generators on red diesel any more, but we can run railway engines on it, so we had to have a second diesel tank installed for DERV, how a generator can be classed as a road vehicle I don't know?

 

[Avocet]

But you have to, TVO is not available at refuelling stations. Not sure if still legal, I know you can't run generators on red diesel any more, but we can run railway engines on it, so we had to have a second diesel tank installed for DERV, how a generator can be classed as a road vehicle I don't know?

Roughly, (just to the nearest million, say), how many cars run on TVO these days?

The law on running diesel generators changed in 2022. At the same time, lots of other diesel powered plant was prohibited from using it in certain circumstances. I think you can only use it in the agriculture, fish farming, rail and non-commercial heating sectors? It's not that the generator (or pump or whatever) is classed as a road vehicle, it's just the government trying to discourage the use of diesel a bit further.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

it's just the government trying to discourage the use of diesel a bit further.

At not long ago Gordo was imploring everyone to buy diesel cars.

And we trust these idiots with running the country (down) and making future transport plans and policies. If politicians are pushing EVs, they might be clamping down on their use in a few years time.

 

[Avocet]

At not long ago Gordo was imploring everyone to buy diesel cars.

And we trust these idiots with running the country (down) and making future transport plans and policies. If politicians are pushing EVs, they might be clamping down on their use in a few years time.

Yes - when they were the best option for vehicles to reduce CO2 emissions. Now we have EV, which are better again on CO2 - what's so hard to understand about that? If it helps, think of it like oil replacing coal, and now renewables replacing oil... If an even better technology comes along at some point in the future, I expect we'll move to that. Are you sticking with gas lights in your house, waiting for something better than electricity to come along?

 

[Brigadier]

You don't see me complaining about driving onto the motorway

By your own admission, no-one sees you driving much at all.

 

[DiyNutJob]

why are there no solar panels on car roofs?

That's because mine is on the rear parcel shelf. Unlike EV owners who have to pay for electricity for their car, I get mine free.

 

[ericmark]

Are you sticking with gas lights in your house

Not in my house, but did have them in the caravan, they not only gave out light, but kept the caravan warm.

There is a blinkered approach to energy saving and CO2 reduction. With a gas or oil heated house, LED lights saved money, but as to saving energy, not so sure, the heat from tungsten lights since in the main inferred, reduced the air temperature required for comfort, so in winter with no heat recovery unit fitted tungsten lights save more energy than LED.

As to transport, in North Wales just outside Mold, I did not NEED a car, it was nice to have a car, but buses stopped yards from house, and ran every half hour 9 am to 5 pm, and a short walk, ¼ mile, and buses 6 am to 11 pm to Chester and Mold. Delivery of food shopping was free if we spend over £25, so there was not NEED for a car.

Here is very different, three buses a day, and walk to bus stop up rather steep hill, the route means 1 hour to do 8 miles, yes in summer also a train, but even more of a walk, and no local taxi to get to train station.

So it is time to stop putting the cart before the horse, and get the bus service good enough so we don't need a car, and clearly those buses can be electric or hydrogen, when all commercial trains and buses are electric, then time to look at cars.