EV are they worth it?

[Brigadier]

- OBR: smoking tax take is c. £8 billion p.a.
- NHS: smoking, alcohol, and diet-related maladies cost the NHS alone c. £11 billion p.a.

Pardoning the "back of a fag packet" analogy, I'd say it is appears from the above alone, that smoking is a net contributor to the NHS.

However, it doesn't take into account the loss of productivity in the economy, for those people who can't be "on top of their game" through the effects of smoking, drinking, and obesity.
And that is while they're alive.
IIRC, half of "long-term smokers" are likely to die before 70 yrs of age, compared to a fifth of non-smokers.
Apart from being useful as worm food, their productivity will then have definitely ceased.

In short, it is probably not feasible to determine with any accuracy, whether smokers are a benefit, a drain, or cost-neutral.

 

[DiyNutJob]

Lithium battery burning down fire station.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Obviously, in an ideal world, I'd prefer to rely on the electricity fairies to provide me with clean, green electricity, 24/4, with no visual impact. But given that's unlikely, I'd sooner put up with living next to a wind farm than living next to one of these....

View attachment 359470

Power stations are undoubtedly ugly, but you don't need many of them . Also they are often sighted in areas that are quite industrial, not on top of green hills in long lines. There will be tens of thousands of windmills all over the country blighting people's lives. Where my brother goes in Portugal there is a beautiful national park nearby. They've even put windmills in there.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Lithium battery burning down fire station.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Obviously, in an ideal world, I'd prefer to rely on the electricity fairies to provide me with clean, green electricity, 24/4, with no visual impact. But given that's unlikely, I'd sooner put up with living next to a wind farm than living next to one of these....

Likely that is true of us all, but large coal-fired stations have been phased out, besides, they which there were not that many, unlike the windmills which are blighting much of the countryside.

 

[Avocet]

Lithium battery burning down fire station.

Ah... you've fallen victim to his weasel words and the power of suggestion again. You really are an absolute sucker for this aren't you?

You're claiming that a lithium battery has burned down a fire station. He has actually stopped short of saying that, but you fell for it anyway!

The truth, is that nobody knows the cause of the fire yet, but I know that's not going to stop you spreading your rumour and hearsay...

Multi million euro fire station destroyed in a fire - lacked fire alarm

- It is a nightmare for a firefighter. No one wants to have to extinguish his own fire station, the district fire inspector, Lars Schäfer, told German media.

ctif.org

"...Initial reports suggest an overheated battery charger may be to blame...."

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Example A. My father, 91 never smoked. Been a massive drain on NHS, care agencies, district nurses for several years now. Got diabetes, prostate cancer, Alzheimers, vascular dementia, chronic kidney disease, atrial fibrillation, etc, etc. Drawing state pension for over 26 years. Latest hospital stay 6 weeks today and counting. Been in hospital more than he's been out of it this year.

Example B. My uncle. Heavy smoker, died late 50s several months after contracting throat cancer. Never got to claim any of his pensions. Would have paid many thousands in tobacco tax over his short life.

So, armchair experts - which one is the biggest drain on the taxpayer and resources?

 

[Avocet]

Likely that is true of us all, but large coal-fired stations have been phased out, besides, they which there were not that many, unlike the windmills which are blighting much of the countryside.

Indeed, but I'm not sure I'd want to live next to a gas one, either! (Or indeed, a nuclear one, although I am quite close to Sellafield).

However, the very fact that wind farms, by their nature, are spread out and in rural areas, mean that comparatively few people will actually have to live next to one!

Don't get me wrong, if there was a better alternative, I'd grab it like a shot - I don't particularly like looking at them either, and living where I do, the view from pretty much any of the Western fells, will have wind turbines in it. However, I also want cheaper electricity at minimum carbon emissions, and greater energy independence for our country. I accept that I can't have it both ways!

Interestingly, it got me wondering...

Was there this much backlash in the mid 18th Century when these "eyesores" were built?

And now they're a favourite subject for painters and photographers - and UNESCO World Heritage site!

 

[Avocet]

Example A. My father, 91 never smoked. Been a massive drain on NHS, care agencies, district nurses for several years now. Got diabetes, prostate cancer, Alzheimers, vascular dementia, chronic kidney disease, atrial fibrillation, etc, etc. Drawing state pension for over 26 years. Latest hospital stay 6 weeks today and counting. Been in hospital more than he's been out of it this year.

Example B. My uncle. Heavy smoker, died late 50s several months after contracting throat cancer. Never got to claim any of his pensions. Would have paid many thousands in tobacco tax over his short life.

So, armchair experts - which one is the biggest drain on the taxpayer and resources?

At a guess, I'd say: "probably one of the other 6 million-odd smokers in the country, rather than either of the two examples that you cherry-picked"?

We all know someone who smoked like a chimney and never suffered any smoking related disease - (my nan, for starters). We also all know folk taken early by cancer, who have never touched a fag in their lives. (I certainly do). We all know people who drive like maniacs and never have an accident and we know timid, careful drivers who do. We know people who live exemplary, healthy lives - often sportsmen and women), who drop dead in their thirties, and we know absolute slobs and couch potatoes who live to a ripe old age.

I could fill a page with unusual examples of things that defy "the general trend", but it IS "the general trend" that costs the NHS the money and resource...

 

[ReganAndCarter]

At a guess, I'd say: "probably one of the other 6 million-odd smokers in the country, rather than either of the two examples that you cherry-picked"?

We all know someone who smoked like a chimney and never suffered any smoking related disease - (my nan, for starters). We also all know folk taken early by cancer, who have never touched a fag in their lives. (I certainly do). We all know people who drive like maniacs and never have an accident and we know timid, careful drivers who do. We know people who live exemplary, healthy lives - often sportsmen and women), who drop dead in their thirties, and we know absolute slobs and couch potatoes who live to a ripe old age.

I could fill a page with unusual examples of things that defy "the general trend", but it IS "the general trend" that costs the NHS the money and resource...

I get the idea some think smokers are sickly all their lives and are a constant drain on the NHS. This is rarely the case. I also get the idea that some think non smokers live to a good age and suddenly peg out hardly bothering the health service. As per my examples, none of this is typical or true.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

However, I also want cheaper electricity at minimum carbon emissions, and greater energy independence for our country. I accept that I can't have it both ways!

Have you checked the carbon cost of the windmill manufacture, build, and regular maintenance?

 

[bernardgreen]

Was there this much backlash in the mid 18th Century when these "eyesores" were built?

They ( wind mills ) were generally welcomed as they were pumping water to drain land that was needed for production of food

 

[DiyNutJob]

"...Initial reports suggest an overheated battery charger may be to blame...."

Not surprised. Fire usually causes everything to over heat.

 

[Avocet]

I get the idea some think smokers are sickly all their lives and are a constant drain on the NHS. This is rarely the case. I also get the idea that some think non smokers live to a good age and suddenly peg out hardly bothering the health service. As per my examples, none of this is typical or true.

Isn't that what I just said...?

You effectively posted an example of each, I told you that cherry-picked examples taken from either extreme weren't typical, and now you appear to be telling e the same?

 

[Avocet]

Not surprised. Fire usually causes everything to over heat.

Apologies. I forgot I was dealing with someone who couldn't get their head round technical concepts...