Immigration Crisis

[gant]

Gotcha.

Man arrested over deaths of 27 migrants who drowned in the Channel

Harem Ahmed Abwbaker was alleged to be a member of the organised crime group who conspired to transport the migrants to the UK in a small boat

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Pat ex]

I see that the BBC opinion of the position of the refugees boat coincides with mine.

In addition the boat and other bodies were found about 3.5 nautical miles form the majority of the bodies.
I wonder how they got there, It couldn't have been the tides or the currents, nor the wind.

For more than two decades UK has tried to stop the refugees risking their lives in the Channel.
The refugees were forced to find another route when the Tunnel crossing was fenced. The refugees will continue to risk their lives if we don't provide safe and legal routes for refugees to seek asylum.

 

[transam]

Said there is a hearing tomorrow about

Extraditing him to France

 

[motorbiking]

As we've been discussing for the last few pages.. the tidal stream flows NE/SW in a parallel transit to the territorial line. As you will see from the full article.

Channel migrants tragedy: Terrifying final hours of their fatal journey - BBC News

At least 30 people lost their lives last month while crossing the Channel in a dinghy. We piece together the final hours of the their journey from France.

www.bbc.co.uk

The beeb also conclude that they probably never made it to UK territorial waters. It would be expected that people found at different times would be in different places. I said earlier that I'd expect the boat to be roughly 2NM NE of the point it sank and of course bodies left in the water longer will have moved further.

 

[transam]

Set off from The French coast

Got into difficulty’s in French waters

Calls for help ignored by the french ?

Bloke from France arrested in the UK

Being extradited to France


Common denominator yes exactly

France / French

 

[motorbiking]

The French maritime authorities (the Maritime Prefecture of the Channel and the North Sea) say they were “not aware this boat was in difficulty prior to the alert raised by a fishing vessel”, referencing the Saint Jacques II. They add that on that same night, 106 people were saved during three different operations.

However, according to the French newspaper Le Monde, a source inside the official police investigation has revealed that the itemised phone bills of the survivors confirm claims they called the French authorities for help.

The UK Home Office maintains the boat was never in British territory and has rejected any claims they failed to respond to the sunken vessel.

Analysis exclusive to the BBC suggests the migrant boat came close to, but never entered UK waters.

Weather and water-current data from that location throughout the day suggests the boat would certainly have been pushed around, but we can deduce from the location the migrants were found in, and the direction of the currents, that waves would not have pushed them back from British waters.

of course others with their new found navigation skills and expert knowledge of tidal flows, will conclude they are lying xenophobes with an agenda.

 

[Pat ex]

The French maritime authorities (the Maritime Prefecture of the Channel and the North Sea) say they were “not aware this boat was in difficulty prior to the alert raised by a fishing vessel”, referencing the Saint Jacques II. They add that on that same night, 106 people were saved during three different operations.

However, according to the French newspaper Le Monde, a source inside the official police investigation has revealed that the itemised phone bills of the survivors confirm claims they called the French authorities for help.

The UK Home Office maintains the boat was never in British territory and has rejected any claims they failed to respond to the sunken vessel.

Analysis exclusive to the BBC suggests the migrant boat came close to, but never entered UK waters.

Weather and water-current data from that location throughout the day suggests the boat would certainly have been pushed around, but we can deduce from the location the migrants were found in, and the direction of the currents, that waves would not have pushed them back from British waters.

of course others with their new found navigation skills and expert knowledge of tidal flows, will conclude they are lying xenophobes with an agenda.

You mean the same Home Office that designed the Rwanda policy for UK Asylum Seekers, the same Home Office that exploited the policy of creating a hostile environment for immigrants, that was later judged to be illegal?
The same Home Office that was discussed very recently on Channel 4 news, where the highest ranking mixed race officer (just retired so he can speak freely) criticised for their outrageous language about minority people?

The important point were and remain, that the refugees called for help, the French were having a busy night, the British were not, the refugees phones were examined, but the communication details for the French SAR were also released, do the communications records of the French SAR coincide with the refugees apparent phone records. If not, why not?
Were or have the British records been released?
Why did the MAIB become involved if they did not reach British waters? There are still more questions than answers.

One point we can agree on, the bodies can easily drift several miles over 12 hours in the Channel.

And the overriding point is the disgusting lack or action, cooperation, and coordination on both nation's SAR, undoubtedly brought about by the continual blaming of the French by the British for the flow of the refugees.

 

[Justin Passing]

Set off from The French coast

Got into difficulty’s in French waters

Calls for help ignored by the french ?

Bloke from France arrested in the UK

Being extradited to France


Common denominator yes exactly

France / French

Yes that's about it.

The forum blowhard troll has been busy putting in his usual crap - obvious , irrelevant and/or wrong, but it didn't actually add anything.

 

[gant]

The BBC link says they were economic migrants who'd tried legal routes and the boat route three and in some cases six times, all ending in failure.
When the blowhard clocks on tomorrow for another round of trolling we'll get the usual round of horse droppings.

 

[Notch7]

The story behind the boat that sunk is really sad, the desperation of these people trying to get to the UK for a better life.

Channel migrants tragedy: Terrifying final hours of their fatal journey - BBC News

At least 30 people lost their lives last month while crossing the Channel in a dinghy. We piece together the final hours of the their journey from France.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[motorbiking]

It is very sad, one of the victims paid over 30k for her illegal passage.

 

[Pat ex]

Yes that's about it.

The forum blowhard troll has been busy putting in his usual crap - obvious , irrelevant and/or wrong, but it didn't actually add anything.

The BBC link says they were economic migrants who'd tried legal routes and the boat route three and in some cases six times, all ending in failure.
When the blowhard clocks on tomorrow for another round of trolling we'll get the usual round of horse droppings.

Motorbiking's hostility towards refugees is well known. It's also obvious that he will wilfully misrepresent factual data.
In those respects his claims and assertions deserve scrutiny.

For instance, he claimed that the refugees were found 7 nautical miles from Calais, they weren't, they were found about 9 nautical miles from Calais. He claimed it was inconceivable that the bodies could have drifted back into French waters to 7 miles form Calais, but the dividing line is only 10 nautical miles from Calais, at that point. It's easily conceivable that the bodies could have drifted less than 1 nautical mile over a 12 hour period.
He claimed it was Southerly wind, it wasn't it was a Northerly wind.
He claimed that the tide was HW-1 at Dover when they entered the water, it wasn't it was LW at Calais, that means it was about HW-5 at Dover.
He claimed that they entered the water at about midnight, they didn't they entered the water at 20.00hrs.

Clearly Motorbiking's claims deserve to be scrutinised.

We are still awaiting the outcome of the official investigation.

Of course if someone's claims and assertions, based on their prejudice, are congruent with your own, you'll be more than content to accept their opinion without question.

 

[Pat ex]

The story behind the boat that sunk is really sad, the desperation of these people trying to get to the UK for a better life.

Channel migrants tragedy: Terrifying final hours of their fatal journey - BBC News

At least 30 people lost their lives last month while crossing the Channel in a dinghy. We piece together the final hours of the their journey from France.

www.bbc.co.uk

What I find even more sad is that both the French and the British expected the other to effect a rescue, despite the fact the boat in distress was just about on or near the dividing line.
It's inconceivable that the RNLI and the French equivalent SNSM were incapable of cooperating and coordinating a rescue between them, and arguing about who should have been responsible to effect a rescue, when the boat was evidently just about on the dividing line.
The RNLI at Dover and the SNSM at Calais were equidistant from the incident, yet neither responded. Perhaps the French were already operational on another incident, but surely they could have requested assistance. Apparently they did request assistance from any boat in the area.

Another sad issue, is that the RNLI might have been found to be acting illegally if they rescued people in distress in the water, if they were in French waters.
That's a shocking result of UK's legislation, designed to create hostility to refugees!

 

[motorbiking]

Motorbiking's hostility towards refugees is well known. It's also obvious that he will wilfully misrepresent factual data.
In those respects his claims and assertions deserve scrutiny.

For instance, he claimed that the refugees were found 7 nautical miles from Calais, they weren't, they were found about 9 nautical miles from Calais. He claimed it was inconceivable that the bodies could have drifted back into French waters to 7 miles form Calais, but the dividing line is only 10 nautical miles from Calais, at that point. It's easily conceivable that the bodies could have drifted less than 1 nautical mile over a 12 hour period.
He claimed it was Southerly wind, it wasn't it was a Northerly wind.
He claimed that the tide was HW-1 at Dover when they entered the water, it wasn't it was LW at Calais, that means it was about HW-5 at Dover.
He claimed that they entered the water at about midnight, they didn't they entered the water at 20.00hrs.

Clearly Motorbiking's claims deserve to be scrutinised.

We are still awaiting the outcome of the official investigation.

Of course if someone's claims and assertions, based on their prejudice, are congruent with your own, you'll be more than content to accept their opinion without question.

My objective was to determine if it was possible for wind and "waves" to push the illegal immigrants from UK waters (the claim was they were approx 5km inside UK waters before propulsion failed) back in to French waters (1-2Nm where they were found). I have proved it wasn't. All credible sources agree with me.

I got the weather wrong as I misread the historic source. I accepted this and used the Dover buoy historic source. Given it was an F3 (A gentle breeze of 7-10kts), the wind made little difference.
I based my first model on the report that the survivors were found 7NM off the coast of Calais as per the Wiki page. My initial EP was therefore 2NM SE to their location.

In all my Models I used Dover <M> which is the closest tidal stream with dover as the reference port.
I've repeatedly told you that you model from HW Dover as its the reference (Standard Port) for tidal flow. Local tides are irrelevant.
I modelled two scenarios from loss of propulsion Midnight and 2AM UTC. When they started is irrelevant. We know where they were found and approximately when they went in to the water (as in MOB) /lost propulsion. The Time of MOB.

I have no objection to scrutiny, but its helpful if you learn the established methods/science. I showed you repeatedly how to calculate everything. Instead you tried to make up your own method and mostly got it wrong.

 

[motorbiking]

What I find even more sad is that both the French and the British expected the other to effect a rescue, despite the fact the boat in distress was just about on or near the dividing line.
It's inconceivable that the RNLI and the French equivalent SNSM were incapable of cooperating and coordinating a rescue between them, and arguing about who should have been responsible to effect a rescue, when the boat was evidently just about on the dividing line.
The RNLI at Dover and the SNSM at Calais were equidistant from the incident, yet neither responded. Perhaps the French were already operational on another incident, but surely they could have requested assistance. Apparently they did request assistance from any boat in the area.

Another sad issue, is that the RNLI might have been found to be acting illegally if they rescued people in distress in the water, if they were in French waters.
That's a shocking result of UK's legislation, designed to create hostility to refugees!

Lets go through and scrutinise these claims:
The rescue services claim they were not aware of the incident until the next day.
CGN was coordinating as per the mayday relay. They tasked all ships and they responded along with a helicopter. The breakdown appears to be the failure to relay the phone call request for help to CGN or for CGN to raise the alarm at the time. We do not know if the illegal migrants ever gave a correct or near correct position during the calls. The survivors claim the phones fell in to the water while they were trying to give a position. Their friends and family expected them to throw their phones in the water if they were successful so did not raise the alarm when contact was lost.
Nothing in UK law, French law or international maritime law would have prevented the RNLI from rescuing illegal migrants in French waters and taking them to the nearest safe port (probably Calais).