Two Tier Keir Strikes Again

[Lirefighter]

I think so:

'Previous convictions
The existence of one or more relevant previous convictions should not generally be used as the sole basis to justify the case passing the custody threshold.
Numerous and frequent previous convictions might indicate an underlying problem (for example, an addiction or experience of domestic abuse) that could be addressed more effectively through a community order with relevant requirements and will not necessarily indicate that a custodial sentence is necessary, even where a custodial sentence has previously been imposed. This may be particularly true for young adults (aged typically 18-25).'

Hmmm.
So a pre sentencing report looks like it could well be utilised as a means to prevent repeat offenders being given a custodial sentence.
Do you think they are recognising the same patterns that everyone else in the general population does?

 

[Deleted member 265726]

Do you think they are recognising the same patterns that everyone else in the general population does?

In what sense, like a drug addict who repeatedly steals to fund their addiction or something else?

I just think it is a joke mostly. I get pregnant women being given a suspended sentence or community order because being preggers and giving birth in prison must be no joke and is pretty victorian by today's standards but the colour of your skin or calling yourself Sally instead of Samuel is not reason to get treated differently.

 

[blup]

You cannot possibly make an argument that people should get different rights and procedures, based on their ethnicity and religion in the criminal justice process.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that. They are arguing that people should not be getting longer sentences than comparable groups for like offences

 

[Deleted member 265726]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1900558449731146081

 

[fillyboy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1900558449731146081

The comments section is fun.

 

[motorbiking]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that. They are arguing that people should not be getting longer sentences than comparable groups for like offences

And nobody has produced evidence that BAMEs get tougher sentences because they are BAME

 

[Deleted member 265726]

It looks even worse than I had previously thought. It looks like an attempt to completely undo the British Judiciary System.

‘Special treatment’ under sentencing rules would not require proof

Offenders would not need to show they were members of ethnic, cultural or other minorities to be considered for lighter punishment

www.thetimes.com

'A new document, which contains the Sentencing Council’s response to a consultation on the guidelines, reveals that it went ahead with the changes despite being told by judges and magistrates that they would exacerbate court backlogs and add considerable expense for taxpayers.

It also show that the council had considered adding more groups that could benefit from softer sentences, including sexual and domestic abuse offenders, the “recently bereaved” and the elderly.'

The document states that no confirmation or proof is needed for an offender to be considered for special treatment. In a report justifying the changes, it said an offender could be considered for a softer sentence even if there was just a “possibility that someone is a member of one of the listed cohorts”.

 

[MNW67]

It looks even worse than I had previously thought. It looks like an attempt to completely undo the British Judiciary System.

That is somewhat hyperbolic! We are talking about one extremely small factor.

 

[Deleted member 265726]

That is somewhat hyperbolic! We are talking about one extremely small factor.

You are feeling quite radical this morning aren't you.

 

[MNW67]

You are feeling quite radical this morning aren't you.

I thought I was being the voice of calm!

 

[blup]

And nobody has produced evidence that BAMEs get tougher sentences because they are BAME

Some evidence seems to suggest there is a disparity in sentencing between different groups, but in any event pre sentencing reports don’t require a lighter sentence, sentencing still being down to the judge.

 

[Deleted member 265726]

Some evidence seems to suggest there is a disparity in sentencing between different groups, but in any event pre sentencing reports don’t require a lighter sentence, sentencing still being down to the judge.

What would be the point of pre sentence reports if they aren't to effect judges decisions on sentencing.

 

[MNW67]

What would be the point of pre sentence reports if they aren't to effect judges decisions on sentencing.

It is quite a subtle argument, from what I have read. The theory is that an overwhelmingly white judiciary may feel less connection with people from ethnic minorities. This in turn leads to a small unconscious bias in sentencing. And the idea is that by learning more about such defendants through a pre-sentence report, this bias will be corrected.

 

[Deleted member 265726]

It is quite a subtle argument, from what I have read. The theory is that an overwhelmingly white judiciary may feel less connection with people from ethnic minorities. This in turn leads to a small unconscious bias in sentencing. And the idea is that by learning more about such defendants through a pre-sentence report, this bias will be corrected.

What radical twaddle. You're spouting ideological intersectional carp.

 

[denso13]

Some evidence seems to suggest there is a disparity in sentencing between different groups, but in any event pre sentencing reports don’t require a lighter sentence, sentencing still being down to the judge.

Yes, just an attempt to give judges all the information they need.

https://academic.oup.com/bjc/article/64/5/1189/7612940

"Ethnic disproportionality in criminal justice outcomes has been documented in subsequent government reports with the most recent report (Ministry of Justice 2021) showing that ethnic minority defendants were between 4 and 28 per cent more likely to be remanded in custody and to have a consistently higher average custodial sentence length (ACSL), than white defendants."