EV are they worth it?

[flameport]

Supposing you suddenly get a call, when your car has been drained by the network,

Won't happen.
Even taking 10kWh out of the car, which would be well over an hour of continuous discharging at the maximum rate, that's only 20% of the capacity for a car with a moderate sized 50kWh battery.

It's the same myth as switching the heater on causes the battery to be discharged in minutes. In reality EVs can run the heater for hours with very little effect on the available driving range.
An EV with a 50kWh battery could power a typical UK home for the best part of a week with no adjustments to energy use.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

, not some deranged fantasy weebling you "read"

^^^^^^^^^ Ironically, I just read some of it ^^^^^^^^^

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Like an ICE, it varies with how it's driven.

Assuming "sensible, average" use, about 300 miles in summer, and maybe 230-260 in winter, depending on how cold it is. If I took it on a track day, maybe 100 miles?

Currently, just shy of 300 miles.

I cannot drive that far without a break anymore nowadays, certainly not on the roads of the UK.

Thank you for your replies. The thing is, those headline figures you quoted for range may not be the full story, and the range is a lot less. If I'm reading this right.

So with EVs, you're only supposed to charge the battery to 80% of capacity and not let it drain below 20% to protect battery life. In effect those maximum ranges you both gave me aren't going to be correct. You can only regularly use 60% of those maximums. Correct?

For example, Avocet's 300 miles in summer is only actually 180 miles and winter 138-156. That's a massive difference from the headline figures, and all this assumes newish batteries in excellent condition. Going to be even worse as the batteries age.

 

[flameport]

Smart charging and DSR currently works like this:

For a half hour period 02:30 to 03:00, EV charge rate was reduced from 7kW to about 1.5kW. This was just a test, but the concept is that if there was a period of excessive load on the electricity network and/or a loss of generation, EV charging can be temporarily reduced to avoid grid failure and blackouts.
The vehicle was still charged, it just took slightly longer. Made no difference to anything as it was still done by 03:30
This example was done by the manufacturer of the EVSE. A similar thing can be done by energy suppliers. This was for EV charging, but the same concept can be applied to other energy use such as hot water, space heating and home battery charging.

Demand side response is not new, it's been used for decades - plenty of large industrial energy users are paid to cut demand at certain times.
The difference is that now it's available to almost anyone if they want to participate.

 

[flameport]

So with EVs, you're only supposed to charge the battery to 80% of capacity and not let it drain below 20% to protect battery life. In effect those maximum ranges yoy gave me aren't going to be correct. You can only regularly use 60% of those maximums. Correct?

Not correct at all.

If people want the absolute maximum life out of the battery then some vehicle manufacturers recommend that for some types of battery to usually charge to about 80% and not go below 20%.
However there is nothing wrong with charging to 100% and then driving the vehicle somewhere.
Likewise there is nothing wrong with arriving at a destination with 10% or even less provided you are going to charge once you get there.
Going to 100% or 10% regularly might degrade the battery slightly more than if not - but for normal use the differences will be insignificant, perhaps an extra few percent of degradation over a few years.

For NMC batteries the important thing is to not store the battery for long periods of time at 100% or below 20%, as that does increase degradation significantly.
However that would mean charging to 100% and then leaving the vehicle parked while going away on holiday for a month, or arriving at some destination with 5% left and inexplicably not charging the vehicle for a week or more - neither of which are sensible or likely situations.

For LFP batteries it's far less significant whether it's charged to 80% or 100% or whatever else - many manufacturers of those vehicles suggest charging to 100% regularly.

The main deal with charging to 80% is when using rapid DC charging, and that's because over 80% vehicles will charge much more slowly, so up to 80% might take 10 or 15 minutes, but 80% to 100% could take well over an extra hour, so in those circumstances it's pointless waiting around for that extra 20% unless you really need it - which in most situations you don't.

For most people it should be charge to whatever is required and then drive wherever you are going.
EVs are not things to be cossetted and delicately used as if they are fragile - they are vehicles intended to be driven, just like any other vehicle.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Even taking 10kWh out of the car, which would be well over an hour of continuous discharging at the maximum rate, that's only 20% of the capacity for a car with a moderate sized 50kWh battery.

Assuming, of course, that the battery was already fully charged. Quite an assumption.

An EV with a 50kWh battery could power a typical UK home for the best part of a week with no adjustments to energy use.

It would power my home, but much of my energy usage is gas. I doubt it would survive long, powering a home using an ASHP, electric cooker and etc. - which is where we are being pushed to go.

 

[JohnD]

It would power my home

No problem, then.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

What about the folk who live in terraced streets, high rises, tenements etc? What's the charging solution for those areas? And how is it going to be delivered within the ridiculous date targets set by government?

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Jeez! Even the bloody ferries are at it now. Got this in an email from Brittanny Ferries today.

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​ Our new ship Saint-Malo has completed its sea trials ​ Our first LNG-electric hybrid ship Saint-Malo has taken to the water. The trials put the ship’s hybrid system to the test and ensure that it is functioning efficiently. When it enters service on the Portsmouth – Saint-Malo route on 12th February 2025, Saint-Malo will be the most virtuous vessel on the channel. ​ FIND OUT MORE​ Virtuous vessel!!!

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[bernardgreen]

What about the folk who live in terraced streets, high rises, tenements etc? What's the charging solution for those areas? And how is it going to be delivered within the ridiculous date targets set by government?

Lounge converted to garage, electric powered car stacker system to get vehicle into lounge

 

[aveatry]

Have you got proof of that?

Actual, real, proof, I mean, not some deranged fantasy weebling you "read" or "heard" somewhere.

I literally read it on the national grid website
Vehicle-to-grid technology could even send that power back to the grid when needed.

 

[flameport]

What about the folk who live in terraced streets, high rises, tenements etc?

If those people have cars now, those cars are parked somewhere for the majority of their existence.
Wherever that is is where charging equipment would need to be installed if those cars are to be replaced with electric ones.

And how is it going to be delivered within the ridiculous date targets set by government?

Which targets are those - ridiculous or otherwise? Do you have specific dates for things happening that no one else knows about?

 

[flameport]

I literally read it on the national grid website

You read a statement in a marketing press release which suggested that something COULD happen.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

If those people have cars now, those cars are parked somewhere for the majority of their existence.
Wherever that is is where charging equipment would need to be installed if those cars are to be replaced with electric ones.


Which targets are those - ridiculous or otherwise? Do you have specific dates for things happening that no one else knows about?

No sh1t sherlock, that's my point. You've answered without answering.

How are they going to deliver all the charging points that are needed in the areas I've mentioned? Or are the cars going to be wireless charging like phones and the streets one big wireless charging point?

If you don't know about the targets go Google

 

[flameport]

Charging facilities are being installed every day in many locations. It will take a couple of decades or more for it to be available in the majority of parking locations,
If charging is not available yet, those that don't have access to it will obviously not be buying an electric car until those facilities are available where they live.

If you don't know about the targets go Google

I know exactly what the situation is. Even assuming it proceeds as planned with no changes, it makes no difference to where or when charging facilities are installed.