EV are they worth it?

[aveatry]

You read a statement in a marketing press release which suggested that something COULD happen.

No it was not amarketing press realease - it was on the national grid web site - go and look.
This from the Gov Regs - yes I read them.
Regulation 10 requires that a relevant charge point incorporates default charging hours and that in most circumstances the charge point will only charge a vehicle during those hours.

Regulation 11 requires that, in most circumstances, a relevant charge point operates with a random delay of up to 10 minutes when it first starts charging. It also requires that a relevant charge point is capable of operating with a random delay of up to 30 minutes.

demand side response services” means—(a)increasing or decreasing the rate of electricity flowing through a charge point; or
(b)changing the time at which electricity flows through the charge point, wholly or primarily for the benefit of the electricity system;

So inbuilt is a facility to delay charging of your car for up to 30mins
When charging your car the rate at which it is charged will be controlled by the electricity provider wholly or primarily for the benefit of the electricity system; So you could find that your car did not charge to a level you were expecting

Also this from the regs
a measuring system, to measure or calculate the electricity imported or exported

 

[aveatry]

If charging is not available yet, those that don't have access to it will obviously not be buying an electric car until those facilities are available where they live.

So there with that simple instrument is the control by which gov will be able to dictate who can have a car when there are no more ICE.

 

[Avocet]

Thank you for your replies. The thing is, those headline figures you quoted for range may not be the full story, and the range is a lot less. If I'm reading this right.

No, those are real figures. The "brochure" figure for mine is "up to 359 miles" I can assure you, I've never had that in real life, just like I've never had the claimed 70 MPG out of the daughter's small diesel.

So with EVs, you're only supposed to charge the battery to 80% of capacity and not let it drain below 20% to protect battery life. In effect those maximum ranges you both gave me aren't going to be correct. You can only regularly use 60% of those maximums. Correct?

Meh... not really. It's a common recommendation - a bit like the 85% towing rule. What does the damage to the battery, is charging to 100% AND LEAVING IT THERE for a long time. Charging to 100% and driving it within a few hours, doesn't really bother the battery. I've done that plenty of times before a long run. 40,000 miles and no observable degradation of the battery yet. Likewise, if I ran it down to 5% and parked it up for a week, that might not do it a lot of good, but running it down to 5% and then plugging into a charger and carrying on, won't bother it. If (like now) I'm not planning any long trips, I won't charge beyond 80%. That's fine. I usually run the battery down a bit and look for the days each week with the greatest availability of green energy (usually windy ones) and charge then (unless I actually need to go somewhere further than the range that's in it).

For example, Avocet's 300 miles in summer is only actually 180 miles and winter 138-156. That's a massive difference from the headline figures, and all this assumes newish batteries in excellent condition. Going to be even worse as the batteries age.

As mentioned above, those are real figures that I've actually achieved in real life. An ICE car's trip computer will also give the range until the tank is empty, but few people drive them until they're empty. They drive them until they're low and fill them up again.

 

[Avocet]

Assuming, of course, that the battery was already fully charged. Quite an assumption.



It would power my home, but much of my energy usage is gas. I doubt it would survive long, powering a home using an ASHP, electric cooker and etc. - which is where we are being pushed to go.

The sums are easy enough to do, if you know your average weekly energy consumption.

Mine would power our house for a few days (and we've no gas where we live), but the problem would be the connector. We have two 8kW showers. The connector wouldn't handle 16kW . If I had an 8kW shower for 5 minutes, that would be 8x5/60 kWh or 0.67 kWh. at 3.5 miles per kWh, that would knock a whacking 2.3 miles off the car's range.

 

[Avocet]

What about the folk who live in terraced streets, high rises, tenements etc? What's the charging solution for those areas? And how is it going to be delivered within the ridiculous date targets set by government?

In a lot of cases, there isn't one as yet. Nobody on here, is advising anyone who can't home-charge to get an EV. it' getting to the end of 2024 now. You'll still be able to buy a new hybrid until 2035 - that's 11 years. On average, cars last about 15 years these days. That takes us to 2050 before we start seeing a serious shortage of ICEs. is 2050 a "ridiculous date target" for that? Would you prefer another 100 years?

 

[Avocet]

Jeez! Even the bloody ferries are at it now. Got this in an email from Brittanny Ferries today.

​

​

​ ​

​

​ Our new ship Saint-Malo has completed its sea trials ​ Our first LNG-electric hybrid ship Saint-Malo has taken to the water. The trials put the ship’s hybrid system to the test and ensure that it is functioning efficiently. When it enters service on the Portsmouth – Saint-Malo route on 12th February 2025, Saint-Malo will be the most virtuous vessel on the channel. ​ FIND OUT MORE​ Virtuous vessel!!!

​

Yup! Best get used to it...

 

[JohnD]

So there with that simple instrument is the control by which gov will be able to dictate who can have a car when there are no more ICE.

Do you live near a supermarket or public car park?

 

[Avocet]

You read a statement in a marketing press release which suggested that something COULD happen.

And even then, it didn't say it could happen without the owner's permission! This is just SO easy! You could unplug it and nobody would be able to nick any electricity from it at all!

 

[Avocet]

No sh1t sherlock, that's my point. You've answered without answering.

How are they going to deliver all the charging points that are needed in the areas I've mentioned? Or are the cars going to be wireless charging like phones and the streets one big wireless charging point?

If you don't know about the targets go Google

"Where there's a will" & all that....

It's really not that hard. Other countries seem to be managing...

 

[Avocet]

No it was not amarketing press realease - it was on the national grid web site - go and look.
This from the Gov Regs - yes I read them.
Regulation 10 requires that a relevant charge point incorporates default charging hours and that in most circumstances the charge point will only charge a vehicle during those hours.

Regulation 11 requires that, in most circumstances, a relevant charge point operates with a random delay of up to 10 minutes when it first starts charging. It also requires that a relevant charge point is capable of operating with a random delay of up to 30 minutes.

demand side response services” means—(a)increasing or decreasing the rate of electricity flowing through a charge point; or
(b)changing the time at which electricity flows through the charge point, wholly or primarily for the benefit of the electricity system;

So inbuilt is a facility to delay charging of your car for up to 30mins
When charging your car the rate at which it is charged will be controlled by the electricity provider wholly or primarily for the benefit of the electricity system; So you could find that your car did not charge to a level you were expecting

Also this from the regs
a measuring system, to measure or calculate the electricity imported or exported

Like we keep saying... unplug it, if you're worried. Then there won't be any electricity imported or exported...

 

[aveatry]

And even then, it didn't say it could happen without the owner's permission!

Maybe for now but the requirement is for all chargers sold to have this facility. I dont trust the Gov and espicually this labour to not change the law to make it compulsory for your car to feed back into the system without your control. And I never sad "nick it "

 

[Avocet]

So there with that simple instrument is the control by which gov will be able to dictate who can have a car when there are no more ICE.

Oh purleeeese...

 

[Avocet]

Maybe for now but the requirement is for all chargers sold to have this facility. I dont trust the Gov and espicually this labour to not change the law to make it compulsory for your car to feed back into the system without your control. And I never sad "nick it "

For pity's sake man! Enough of the crackpot conspiracy theories!

If I was a sinister, evil government wanting to control who could and couldn't drive a car, the first thing I'd do, was introduce some sort of system whereby you had to have some sort of licence to drive one. Something I could take away from people who I didn't want on the roads...

The next thing I'd do, was make them all go to a special place to get their fuel. Fuel that they couldn't easily make themselves, in fact.... I'd also tax that fuel at the point of sale, so I could vary the tax, if I wanted to price people of the roads....

Then I'd probably set up a load of cameras that could read number plates, I'd use them for tracking vehicle movements, if I felt like it. I'd also use them to control whether they could go into certain areas where I wanted to try and keep pollution down. I could charge the ones with more polluting cars, if I felt like it...

Trust me, the government doesn't have to wait for EVs to control our car use...

 

[aveatry]

"Where there's a will" & all that....

View attachment 358681


It's really not that hard. Other countries seem to be managing...

Ok lets take your picture and it could charge 2 cars - now take a terraced house which could fit 1 car out the front - there are 7M terraced houses and that means 3.5M charge outlets will need to be fitted.
Aint gonna happen.

 

[aveatry]

For pity's sake man! Enough of the crackpot conspiracy theories!

You need look no further than smart meters being remotely cut off or being changed to a prepayment one. There is no conspiracy needed - its already happening.